velvet donkey posted:Return to sender with a tuppeny red.
Don't whatever you dare....send it with a penny black! 
I have a fear of destabilisation. There has to be a really good reason to attack the status quo. As I said in the other place the Brexit peepil have to........
a) come up with a valid reason to leave.
b) explain how the UK would leave.
c) explain what the future holds.
I think point B is partially defined but they haven't been able to explain the rest of it.
Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:Return to sender with a tuppeny red.
Don't whatever you dare....send it with a penny black!
you can send them back, loads have and haven't been as polite as me I might add ...mine did not include sweary words, and no mention of pigs, bacon, electoral fraud or tax evasion 
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:Return to sender with a tuppeny red.
Don't whatever you dare....send it with a penny black!
you can send them back, loads have and haven't been as polite as me I might add ...mine did not include sweary words, and no mention of pigs, bacon, electoral fraud or tax evasion
PMSL!
just in case you've not made your mind up yet
I'm defo in now cos my mum says so.
Sprout posted:Has anyone read their leaflet yet? I haven't
I have but couldn't be bothered to read it. I think a counter point would have been appropriate and fair under the circumstances. I'm not pro-brexit but just think the leaflet should have given the other camp a voice.
Garage Joe posted:I have a fear of destabilisation. There has to be a really good reason to attack the status quo. As I said in the other place the Brexit peepil have to........
a) come up with a valid reason to leave.
b) explain how the UK would leave.
c) explain what the future holds.
I think point B is partially defined but they haven't been able to explain the rest of it.
I'm torn between the prospect of exit, which would let the rabid right wing off their rather stretchy leash and the prospect of the election of a left wing government that could nationalise as it saw fit and chuck Rupert Murdoch out of the country.
I think Corbyn's right backing the EU as the EU, while the Tories are in charge, is a protection against rampant right wing dogma that would be unfettered if we left the EU while the Tories were in charge.
I'm an out.....nothing the In people has said has changed my mind
Carnelian posted:Garage Joe posted:I have a fear of destabilisation. There has to be a really good reason to attack the status quo. As I said in the other place the Brexit peepil have to........
a) come up with a valid reason to leave.
b) explain how the UK would leave.
c) explain what the future holds.
I think point B is partially defined but they haven't been able to explain the rest of it.
I'm torn between the prospect of exit, which would let the rabid right wing off their rather stretchy leash and the prospect of the election of a left wing government that could nationalise as it saw fit and chuck Rupert Murdoch out of the country.
I think Corbyn's right backing the EU as the EU, while the Tories are in charge, is a protection against rampant right wing dogma that would be unfettered if we left the EU while the Tories were in charge.
I don't know too much about the Brexit threads but their denizens certainly pop up on our IN sites!
They still seem unable to come up with a credible reason for leaving and have no idea of how to define the future outside. If they want to trade with the commonwealth then they will need a long tunnel.
I'm still waiting to be presented with strong reasons to leave, they just aren't coming.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
I'm still waiting to be presented with strong reasons to leave, they just aren't coming.
I've always been for staying in.. and I don't see anything changing. Even though Boris is now bringing Hitler into the equation. 
What a pillock.
velvet donkey posted:I don't like the regime but it weighs up against the uncertainty and no doubt following spite. It's catch 22. I believe a country should be able to govern itself but I probably live in cuckoo land.
Europe is the Hotel California.
Boris wouldn't get past the Billy Smart auditions.
Too right Donks. You can't leave Hotel California. 
Especially after the leave comments Boris made regarding Hitler! 
Kaffs posted:I've always been for staying in.. and I don't see anything changing. Even though Boris is now bringing Hitler into the equation.
Funny, last week we had smears from Cameron and co playing the race card, Boris on Hitler...Livingston suspended for mentioning Hitler because he's anti semitic ... I despair at this Country, I really do
I'm still voting in and have no intention of changing my mind, we vote in and if it goes tits up we can leave, we vote out and it goes tits up we're lumbered
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Kaffs posted:I've always been for staying in.. and I don't see anything changing. Even though Boris is now bringing Hitler into the equation.
Funny, last week we had smears from Cameron and co playing the race card, Boris on Hitler...Livingston suspended for mentioning Hitler because he's anti semitic ... I despair at this Country, I really do
I'm still voting in and have no intention of changing my mind, we vote in and if it goes tits up we can leave, we vote out and it goes tits up we're lumbered
Just what I said ages ago
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Just what I said ages ago
where politicians are already fighting over when to have another referendum.
which loosely translates as Nippy won't STFU about it, I'm sick hearing that 'when it's obvious the majority of Scots want independence we'll have another vote' The only way to know the majority want it is to vote - we did that - the answer is no. She needs to shut up and suck it up., and get on with the job she's supposed to be doing NOW.
As for the 'Scottish Referendum', from where I stand it seems to me it's EVERYONE ELSE who is going on about it and TELLING US what the SNP want.
From what I saw the SNP were trying to get on with the situation as it now was, but others wouldn't let it lie.
Anyway, enough of that! That wasn't what the post was about, it was highlighting the fact that the same threats/warnings/scaremongering if you like are being trotted out over this potential leaving of the EU as were flying about over the potential Scottish exit.
They are happy to tell us of all the negative things an exit could lead to,
COULD is the crux word here. If it could be bad. it equally COULD be good.
Every decision we make in life has a 50/50 chance of being good or bad.
Sorry, Fluffers... but I can't agree. This is from their manifesto .. not something someone else is telling them. (I'll shut up now )
We will achieve independence only when a majority of our fellow citizens are persuaded that it offers the best future for our country. Our success will depend on the strength of our arguments and the clarity of our vision. We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people â or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.
We will undertake new work, starting this summer to persuade a clear majority of the Scottish people that independence is the best future for our country.
Derek Laud (BB6) has just appeared on the C4 documentary "Boris v Dave"!
Derek apparently knew David Cameron when he worked at Conservative Central Office after leaving university.
Derek Laud was a bit of a berk on BB6
Is anyone NOT voting in the EU referendum?
Saint posted:Derek Laud was a bit of a berk on BB6
As with quite a few HMs on BB6, I really wanted to like Derek but he kept making it impossible for me to do so. 
I have to say though that I thought he came across very well on tonight's show.
I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
Saint posted:Is anyone NOT voting in the EU referendum?
I'm voting for sure.
Sprout posted:I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
The filth of it all
Moderator !!!!!!
Sprout posted:I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
But you need to shake it all about.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Sprout posted:I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
But you need to shake it all about.
Saint posted:Sprout posted:I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
The filth of it all
Moderator !!!!!!
I haven't shaken it ll about......yet
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Sprout posted:I'm voting.....I've gone to out now....I was out, then I went to in, now I'm out again
But you need to shake it all about.
There's still time
Depends what it is that"s in or out, or being shaken about.
.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Depends what it is that"s in or out.
.
In my case, my vote
I've decided not to vote
Can't trust any of them to tell the truth
On your heads be it . . . . while I bury mine in the sand, aherm 
THIS illustrates my frustration with the referendum coverage.
I was watching BBC Breakfast and they had on a correspondent who told us that they have been taking a ballot box around the country to gather 'your' questions and this short film of soundbites from the public would present some of them.
NOT ONE of the people on film asked a question, they were all people expressing their opinions on certain subjects, opinions we have heard a thousand time already during this campaign.
Another pointless piece by the BBC, a company which has a remit to educate and inform the public. MASSIVE FAIL BBC.
I think most people had/have already made up their minds which way they would/will vote long before all the "claptrap" from the "stay in/brexit" lot started to "state their case"
As for all the statistics we keep having quoted at us, well there are...
LIes, damned lies and statistics...
How can someone say what the state of the economy can be in 5 years time when they can't even get it right year on year?
That about says it all...
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
THIS illustrates my frustration with the referendum coverage.
I was watching BBC Breakfast and they had on a correspondent who told us that they have been taking a ballot box around the country to gather 'your' questions and this short film of soundbites from the public would present some of them.
NOT ONE of the people on film asked a question, they were all people expressing their opinions on certain subjects, opinions we have heard a thousand time already during this campaign.
Another pointless piece by the BBC, a company which has a remit to educate and inform the public. MASSIVE FAIL BBC.
I'm not sure you can lay the blame for general ignorance at the door of the BBC.
The population in general have never taken an interest in Europe, politics in general, or even pensions. All the important stuff. IMHYCO.
Moonie posted:I think most people had/have already made up their minds which way they would/will vote long before all the "claptrap" from the "stay in/brexit" lot started to "state their case"
As for all the statistics we keep having quoted at us, well there are...
LIes, damned lies and statistics...
How can someone say what the state of the economy can be in 5 years time when they can't even get it right year on year?
That about says it all...
Spot on Moonie 
TBH I think most people will be voting by instinct ....or will give up in confusion
Garage Joe posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
THIS illustrates my frustration with the referendum coverage.
I was watching BBC Breakfast and they had on a correspondent who told us that they have been taking a ballot box around the country to gather 'your' questions and this short film of soundbites from the public would present some of them.
NOT ONE of the people on film asked a question, they were all people expressing their opinions on certain subjects, opinions we have heard a thousand time already during this campaign.
Another pointless piece by the BBC, a company which has a remit to educate and inform the public. MASSIVE FAIL BBC.
I'm not sure you can lay the blame for general ignorance at the door of the BBC.
The population in general have never taken an interest in Europe, politics in general, or even pensions. All the important stuff. IMHYCO.
Not general ignorance GJ and I don't think that's what I was implying, just a paucity of information by the BBC that would give us a balanced and broad ranging overview of the important issues.
But I would agree, from the statistics at each election it would seem we have very little interest in politics of any colour, shape or form. The sad thing is that proportionally more people vote in shows like BGT and X-Factor (I may have made that up). 
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Garage Joe posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
THIS illustrates my frustration with the referendum coverage.
I was watching BBC Breakfast and they had on a correspondent who told us that they have been taking a ballot box around the country to gather 'your' questions and this short film of soundbites from the public would present some of them.
NOT ONE of the people on film asked a question, they were all people expressing their opinions on certain subjects, opinions we have heard a thousand time already during this campaign.
Another pointless piece by the BBC, a company which has a remit to educate and inform the public. MASSIVE FAIL BBC.
I'm not sure you can lay the blame for general ignorance at the door of the BBC.
The population in general have never taken an interest in Europe, politics in general, or even pensions. All the important stuff. IMHYCO.
Not general ignorance GJ and I don't think that's what I was implying, just a paucity of information by the BBC that would give us a balanced and broad ranging overview of the important issues.
But I would agree, from the statistics at each election it would seem we have very little interest in politics of any colour, shape or form. The sad thing is that proportionally more people vote in shows like BGT and X-Factor (I may have made that up).
Attachments
Images (1)
You put your Serbo-Croats in,
You take your Basque Separatist out,
In - out, In - out,
You shake Independent Unionists all about,
You do the Euro-referendum and you U-turn all around,
That's what it's all about,
Hoy !!
Debate on BBC1 now....How should I vote
You put your Serbo-Croats in,
You take your Basque Separatist out,
In - out, In - out,
You shake Independent Unionists all about,
You do the Euro-referendum and you U-turn all around,
That's what it's all about,
Hoy !!
All these figures being bandied about and no one can come up with the correct one!
apologies for bad language...don't read if offended by swearie words
That's bang on Kaff's, I've been saying it for the last 7/8 years, quite obvious they were using the politics of fear... Just bought the book actually
velvet donkey posted:Dame they can sack you on a whim now
And the redundancy pay is crap. Europe disnae come into it.
I know Velvet and then employ someone on zero hour contact or better still workfare where they don't have to pay you anything... it really is disgusting. Just think what will happen to sick pay, maternity pay etc that is European law if we do get Brexit ..gone like all the other things people fought for over the years.
I'm starting to do my own polls in and outside work. If people are happy to tell me I ask if they plan to vote, if so which way. So far more people than not plan to vote. Of those I have only found one undecided, the rest are 'Brin'
Watched another politician on TV today answering questions about Europe, well I say answering questions, he just seemed to want to do anything but until he prefaced it with whatever drivel he wanted.
When will these overpaid trough snaffling cretins realise that we the GBP would prefer them to be upfront and answer the damn question asked!!
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:I'm starting to do my own polls in and outside work. If people are happy to tell me I ask if they plan to vote, if so which way. So far more people than not plan to vote. Of those I have only found one undecided, the rest are 'Brin'
You can ask me I'm Brexit
I'm getting worried.. Brexit seems to be gaining in popularity and the pound's dropping again.
What would happen to the European Court of Justice and the European Sale of Goods Act....both very useful when dealing with dodginess
Also anything Gove wants, I don't
Scary stuff....all I can see is the immigration excuse and the lies that surround it. No thought of what is going to happen after Brexit, how much we will have to pay to trade, probably over 2 years to negotiate a trade agreement and then have to accept EU rules much like Norway.
To top it all, a government that may or may not be illegal due to electoral fraud and threatening more Austerity, god help poorest in society as if this lot need any excuse to make people's lives more miserable.
I'm voting in, for the sake of my children and grandchildren, we vote out and it goes horribly wrong we're b*ggered, we stay in and leave at anytime if it goes wrong...no brainer for me.
The most convincing argument for me to vote in is the list of the people who want Brexit... Gove, Farage, Johnson
just saying...these are things no one is talking about!
Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Scary stuff....all I can see is the immigration excuse and the lies that surround it. No thought of what is going to happen after Brexit, how much we will have to pay to trade, probably over 2 years to negotiate a trade agreement and then have to accept EU rules much like Norway.
To top it all, a government that may or may not be illegal due to electoral fraud and threatening more Austerity, god help poorest in society as if this lot need any excuse to make people's lives more miserable.
I'm voting in, for the sake of my children and grandchildren, we vote out and it goes horribly wrong we're b*ggered, we stay in and leave at anytime if it goes wrong...no brainer for me.
The most convincing argument for me to vote in is the list of the people who want Brexit... Gove, Farage, Johnson
I despise this government...and the fact that they are so deeply divided over Europe can only do them harm I hope. Cameron is just as bad....but this EU question goes way beyond Tory power struggles.....John major was brilliant on andrew marr ....a compassionate and intelligent tory.....rare indeed.
I met someone who was at a party with a young Gove undergraduate.....he used to steal perfume from his host's bedroom to drink when the normal booze ran out!
I agree with what you say Dame....
Kaffs posted:I'm getting worried.. Brexit seems to be gaining in popularity and the pound's dropping again.
The only problem with polls is they got it massively wrong at the recent election.
Apparently thousands of young people have been registering to vote before today's closing deadline.
This is good news indeed. After all, it is the young who are going to be most affected by the outcome of this referendum, (rather than old farts like me), so it's important that they have their say.
Madame Arcati posted:Apparently thousands of young people have been registering to vote before today's closing deadline.
This is good news indeed. After all, it is the young who are going to be most affected by the outcome of this referendum, (rather than old farts like me), so it's important that they have their say.
My son just got back from a few days working in Berlin and hopes to go again...so yes, many of the young are for staying in
Amythist posted:Madame Arcati posted:Apparently thousands of young people have been registering to vote before today's closing deadline.
This is good news indeed. After all, it is the young who are going to be most affected by the outcome of this referendum, (rather than old farts like me), so it's important that they have their say.
My son just got back from a few days working in Berlin and hopes to go again...so yes, many of the young are for staying in
Most young folk that I know are in favour of staying in, too, Amythist.
Madame Arcati posted:Apparently thousands of young people have been registering to vote before today's closing deadline.
This is good news indeed. After all, it is the young who are going to be most affected by the outcome of this referendum, (rather than old farts like me), so it's important that they have their say.
I was going to start another thread about the registration systems going down overnight due to demand.
You do have to ask yourself how bothered these people can be if they left it until the 11th hour and 59th minute!
I'm quite harsh and think that if you missed it, tough. A life lesson to be more organised in future.
I posted my IN vote today 
Moonie posted:I shall put my "x" by either in or out
50/50 chance then eh?
So are you voting then Donks?
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
I was going to start another thread about the registration systems going down overnight due to demand.
You do have to ask yourself how bothered these people can be if they left it until the 11th hour and 59th minute!
I'm quite harsh and think that if you missed it, tough. A life lesson to be more organised in future.
A lot of the people registering last minute are younger people and just maybe they have come to realise how important it is they have a choice in the decision and not let the older generation decide the future for them...just saying
Interesting reading, thank you all
I'm still undecided. I have no faith in politicians either way, and think the media just tell us what they want us to hear.
Dame's post re Nissan is interesting especially, I know many folk who work there
~Sweet Summer~ posted:Interesting reading, thank you all
I'm still undecided. I have no faith in politicians either way, and think the media just tell us what they want us to hear.
Dame's post re Nissan is interesting especially, I know many folk who work there
Sweet, my way of thinking is, if the vote is out, it's our next generations that have to deal with the aftermath and at the minute the Brexit peeps aren't coming up with enough opposite arguments to make me vote their way. They're hanging it on a 'one pony'
And.....even though they want out, do they realise they still will end up paying money into Europe without having any say
That's my take on it
I found this interesting.... I'm for staying in - far to much risk to business if we come completely out, and if we go the way of Norway, we just pay and are dictated to by Brussels without being involved in the decision making. It's a no brainer for me. Change from within.
http://www.theguardian.com/com...d-by-norwegian-model
Yes Kaffs, for me, while being in Europe isn't perfect it's better than being out in my opinion. I'm voting to change from within for my nieces and nephews and their children, and children's children
I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
Speaks for itself
Letter from Lord Bamford, JCB chairman, to his 6000 employees explaining why he'll Vote Leave.
Dear Colleague
The EU referendum takes place on June 23 and no one can be certain of the outcome. One thing Iâm certain of is this: JCB will continue to trade with Europe, irrespective of whether we remain in or leave the EU. JCB was selling into Europe long before the UK joined the Common Market in 1973 and it will remain an important market for JCB.
JCB is a global company selling to over 150 countries. Today, EU countries account for 22 per cent of our turnover; the other 78 per cent comes from the UK, India, the Americas, Russia, the Middle East, Africa, Asia Pacific and the Far East.
In fact, as a nation, over 53 per cent of all UK exports go to non-EU countries.
This referendum is very important. The outcome will determine the future of our country. It will have a lasting impact on the lives of our children and grandchildren.
It is a big decision, much more important than a vote in a general election, so please allow me to share some personal views.
The UK is a trading nation and the fifth largest economy in the world. I am very confident that we can stand on our own two feet.
I believe that JCB and the UK can prosper just as much outside the EU, so there is very little to fear if we do choose to leave. I voted to stay in the Common Market in 1975. I did not vote for a political union.
I did not expect us to hand over sovereignty to the EU. I certainly did not expect unaccountable leaders in Brussels to govern over us.
In 1973, when we joined as its eighth member, the EU accounted for 31 per cent of world economic output. Today â with 28 member countries â the figure is just 17 per cent, which underlines the shrinking role of the EU in the world economy.
So do I wish to remain in an EU of diminishing economic importance as it moves towards ever closer union? Or do I want us to pull out of the EU, reclaim our sovereignty and regain control of how we trade with Europe and the world?
After more than 40 years in the EU, I will be voting to leave. How you vote is entirely a decision for you. I respectfully urge you to consider all of the arguments ahead of this important referendum. Above all, do please cast a vote, one way or the other â your opinion counts and your vote counts.
Finally, if the democratic decision after June 23 is to remain, it will be interesting to see how the UK fits into the EU of the future, given that political and fiscal union remains its ultimate goal.
Yours faithfully
The Lord Bamford
squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle .....I think there is as much danger staying in , as coming out ....more so imho
Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle
I agree, David Cameron & Co. have been so busy trying to frighten people into the 'safe option' staying in. Anyone who does any research at all must realise that there are vast changes in the pipeline, much much more frightening than taking back control of our own destiny, in my opinion.
squiggle posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle
I agree, David Cameron & Co. have been so busy trying to frighten people into the 'safe option' staying in. Anyone who does any research at all must realise that there are vast changes in the pipeline, much much more frightening than taking back control of our own destiny, in my opinion.
squiggle posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle
I agree, David Cameron & Co. have been so busy trying to frighten people into the 'safe option' staying in. Anyone who does any research at all must realise that there are vast changes in the pipeline, much much more frightening than taking back control of our own destiny, in my opinion.
And if we come out....you don't think DC will become more of a dictator than he already is?
Sprout posted:squiggle posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle
I agree, David Cameron & Co. have been so busy trying to frighten people into the 'safe option' staying in. Anyone who does any research at all must realise that there are vast changes in the pipeline, much much more frightening than taking back control of our own destiny, in my opinion.
And if we come out....you don't think DC will become more of a dictator than he already is?
No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come out
Baz posted:No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come out
I don't think he will either, but look who's gonna take his place
Sprout posted:squiggle posted:Baz posted:squiggle posted:I agree Baz. There are so many countries making noises about wanting a referendums of their own - even Germany for heavens sake! - why would we want to stay in this crumbling trading bloc when we have the whole of the rest of the world to trade with, including our own friends in the Commonwealth.
My feelings exactly Squiggle
I agree, David Cameron & Co. have been so busy trying to frighten people into the 'safe option' staying in. Anyone who does any research at all must realise that there are vast changes in the pipeline, much much more frightening than taking back control of our own destiny, in my opinion.
And if we come out....you don't think DC will become more of a dictator than he already is?
I think David Cameron is dead in the water no matter the outcome. He has the credibility of Tony Blair.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come outI don't think he will either, but look who's gonna take his place
Exactly! Just looking at the names of the front runners is enough to chill my blood!
Baz posted:The way I look at it .....and even taking into account that times have changed somewhat .....we managed before we were in Europe , and will manage whichever way the vote goes this time .
We did.. just like we managed during the war, with rationing, poor housing, no NHS etc.. doesn't mean we'd want to do it again though, does it? I guess we can manage without paid holiday leave, maternity leave, workers' rights, free health care when you're travelling in Europe ... all those other pesky things Tory governments don't like...
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come outI don't think he will either, but look who's gonna take his place
You don't know who will take his place , any more than I do
Still going to be a tory though...
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:The way I look at it .....and even taking into account that times have changed somewhat .....we managed before we were in Europe , and will manage whichever way the vote goes this time .
We did.. just like we managed during the war, with rationing, poor housing, no NHS etc.. doesn't mean we'd want to do it again though, does it? I guess we can manage without paid holiday leave, maternity leave, workers' rights, free health care when you're travelling in Europe ... all those other pesky things Tory governments don't like...
I don't think anyone is suggesting we are facing rationing, and I think there are some plans in the offing in the EU for the end of the NHS. It's all speculation at the moment, if you feel you can trust them. Well we all have to make our own choices don't we? I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we had paid holiday leave and workers' rights way before we joined the Common Market, as was.
squiggle posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:The way I look at it .....and even taking into account that times have changed somewhat .....we managed before we were in Europe , and will manage whichever way the vote goes this time .
We did.. just like we managed during the war, with rationing, poor housing, no NHS etc.. doesn't mean we'd want to do it again though, does it? I guess we can manage without paid holiday leave, maternity leave, workers' rights, free health care when you're travelling in Europe ... all those other pesky things Tory governments don't like...
I don't think anyone is suggesting we are facing rationing, and I think there are some plans in the offing in the EU for the end of the NHS. It's all speculation at the moment, if you feel you can trust them. Well we all have to make our own choices don't we? I also know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we had paid holiday leave and workers' rights way before we joined the Common Market, as was.
No, Squiggs, I wasn't suggesting we were facing rationing.. just saying that because we 'managed' bad situations in the past, doesn't mean that we necessarily want to do it again. As for paid holiday - I'm pretty sure there wasn't a mandatory amount - it was part of a negotiated contract. Likewise breaks and maximum working hours etc? As you say though - we all have to vote for what we believe in. Too many uncertainties for me.
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come outI don't think he will either, but look who's gonna take his place
You don't know who will take his place , any more than I do
........and there's the rub! We have no real idea of how things will go if we stay in and equally we have no real idea of how things'll be if we get out. It's all speculation and hype......and trading on peoples' fears about how good or bad things COULD be under either choice.
Remember, if it 'could' be bad given a certain circumstance it equally 'could' be not-bad, or even good, given the same circumstance.
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:The way I look at it .....and even taking into account that times have changed somewhat .....we managed before we were in Europe , and will manage whichever way the vote goes this time .
We did.. just like we managed during the war, with rationing, poor housing, no NHS etc.. doesn't mean we'd want to do it again though, does it? I guess we can manage without paid holiday leave, maternity leave, workers' rights, free health care when you're travelling in Europe ... all those other pesky things Tory governments don't like...
I think it was in the late 50s that we * never had it so good * .....and in the 60s you could walk out of a job one day and into another the next ....and I speak from experience .....and I had paid holidays ....all pre Common Market ....life really wasn't so bleak without the EU ......but like I said , we will all vote with our consciences ....and that's how it should be
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:No, not at all .......in fact I don't think he will survive if we do come outI don't think he will either, but look who's gonna take his place
You don't know who will take his place , any more than I do
........and there's the rub! We have no real idea of how things will go if we stay in and equally we have no real idea of how things'll be if we get out. It's all speculation and hype......and trading on peoples' fears about how good or bad things COULD be under either choice.
Remember, if it 'could' be bad given a certain circumstance it equally 'could' be not-bad, or even good, given the same circumstance.
That's what I think too EFFT ......
I am so hacked off with this finger-pointing debate now. (I'm watching the ITV debate atm) Nothing is informing anyone about the fallout. Having said that I hold Nicola Sturgeon above reproach.
I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing. 
Xochi posted:I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing.
Yup, had to turn over meself! Makes me feel like spoiling my paper to sod the lot of them!
(good to see you Xochs x)
Rexi posted:Xochi posted:I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing.
Yup, had to turn over meself! Makes me feel like spoiling my paper to sod the lot of them!
(good to see you Xochs x)
Yep Bazzy. But I stand by my imperative to vote come what may. i know it was so last century but women died for us.
Xochi posted:Rexi posted:Xochi posted:I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing.
Yup, had to turn over meself! Makes me feel like spoiling my paper to sod the lot of them!
(good to see you Xochs x)
Yep Bazzy.
That's Rexi But I agree Xochi
Baz posted:Xochi posted:Rexi posted:Xochi posted:I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing.
Yup, had to turn over meself! Makes me feel like spoiling my paper to sod the lot of them!
(good to see you Xochs x)
Yep Bazzy.
That's Rexi
Hmm ladiezzz ... my take has always been that women died so that us females could have the same voting rights as men ... which means that we could choose whether to vote or not.
not that I would never not vote. Well, I didn't vote for my Police Commissioner and I don't know a single soul who did!
Isn't it exciting? I think it was Napoleon who said that we shouldn't interfere when our enemy was making mistakes. It's fun to see the Tories tear themselves apart over Europe again.
However the stakes are too high and one finds oneself supporting Tories like Cameron, Blair and Major. Essentially we are in the EC so it's up to the Brexiteers to come up with a reason to leave and a description of how it will all turn out.
All their arguments, the ÂĢ350 megaspond, the controlling our borders, the being told what to do, and other nonsense have been blown out of the water. But will the GBP recognise this?
The other important point is that no-one was particularly interested in having a referendum. Cameron panicked instead of asking Farrago if he "liked sex and travel."
Rexi posted:Baz posted:Xochi posted:Rexi posted:Xochi posted:I've stopped watching now. High horses ain't my thing.
Yup, had to turn over meself! Makes me feel like spoiling my paper to sod the lot of them!
(good to see you Xochs x)
Yep Bazzy.
That's Rexi
Hmm ladiezzz ... my take has always been that women died so that us females could have the same voting rights as men ... which means that we could choose whether to vote or not.
not that I would never not vote. Well, I didn't vote for my Police Commissioner and I don't know a single soul who did!
For me, not voting can in itself be a political action, but it's why you choose not to vote that matters.
Of all the times I've been eligible to vote, I've only not done so twice - both times were for the Police Chief Commissioner elections. This was because I don't agree with the existence of the role in the first place, and therefore I'll have nothing to do with it. The first time, I simply didn't go to the polling station: in the recent election, I wanted to vote in the Local Council election, so I deliberately spoilt my PCC ballot paper (as it turned out, I was one of thousands who did so in my town alone...)
she spoke for me *warning bad language *
Dame_Ann_Average posted:she spoke for me
Thanks for the continued discussions l, all points of view are very helpful
~Sweet Summer~ posted:Thanks for the continued discussions l, all points of view are very helpful
I shall be glad when it's all over and we have decided one way or the other. Tbh, I was bored after the first few days. To much rhetoric and too much bullspit
One side using "scare tactics" and the other side "poo pooing" what they have said . No good hard solid facts. How can either side say what will happen in "x" amount of years time when they can't even get it right twelve months in advance?
I wish the vote was this week. So want this to be over and done with.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
I wish the vote was this week. So want this to be over and done with.
Wholeheartedly agree!
I think I've finally decided which way to vote - not that I think it'll change the outcome in any way!
I'm hoping now politicians will argue the facts of the referendum, I've found over the last few years the tone of some MP's and especially of late leaves a very nasty taste in your mouth. The one thing that may have came out of the tragic death of Jo Cox is how MP's behave and where they lay the blame for their failings and how they should conduct themselves. The points that are crucial to decide the outcome of this referendum have not been discussed by some, it all comes back to immigrants whoever I speak to. I find the rhetoric of the last few years from the right has well and truly backfired....IMO
You can only blame immigrants, the sick, the disabled and the unemployed for so long until people see through it...Polly Toynbee wrote a piece today that goes part way to what many of us have been saying for years... I'm also pleased that the new poster of Farage's is being looked at by the police for inciting racial hatred....A conversation I had at lunchtime with a friend and a local reporter friend of mine was quite interesting... she's limited with what she can print, but her parting words to us were " which way we are going we're all heading for a handcart to hell" and we both agreed.
Dame_Ann_Average posted:
I'm hoping now politicians will argue the facts of the referendum, I've found over the last few years the tone of some MP's and especially of late leaves a very nasty taste in your mouth. The one thing that may have came out of the tragic death of Jo Cox is how MP's behave and where they lay the blame for their failings and how they should conduct themselves. The points that are crucial to decide the outcome of this referendum have not been discussed by some, it all comes back to immigrants whoever I speak to. I the rhetoric of the last few years from the right as well and truly backfired....IMO
You can only blame immigrants, the sick, the disabled and the unemployed for so long until people see through it...Polly Toynbee wrote a piece today that goes part way to what many of us have been saying for years... I'm also pleased that the new poster of Farage's is being looked at by the police for inciting racial hatred....A conversation I had at lunchtime with a friend and a local reporter friend of mine was quite interesting... she's limited with what she can print, but her parting words to us were " which way we are going we're all heading for a handcart to hell" and we both agreed.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
I wish the vote was this week. So want this to be over and done with.
The problem is that it's not going to be over and done with.
If the vote is for "Remain", then unless it's by a large margin (which is becoming increasingly unlikely) we're going to get into "neverendum" territory. Farage has already strongly intimated that he'll be pushing for another referendum sooner rather than later.
It will go on for years.
If the vote is for "Leave", then the news for ages is going to be dominated by the fallout: the Tory leadership battle; the exit deal negotiations; the attempts at free trade negotiations; another Scottish independence referendum (based on Scotland staying in the EU); the Budget and other economic repercussions; etc..
It will go on for years.
Still plenty of time to change our minds another half-dozen times or so!
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Still plenty of time to change our minds another half-dozen times or so!
My postal vote's been sent in and I ain't changin me mind now....not after a long and thoughtful deliberation
Osborne has warned that leaving will mean he'll have to SLASH the welfare budget and that AUSTERITY will have to be extended for a further 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised he'll find an excuse to do/try that anyway, regardless of which way we go.
Former defence chief Lord Guthrie has switched sides to the Leave campaign in the EU referendum, saying he is worried by the prospect of "a European army".
In February the ex-chief of the defence staff signed a Downing Street letter calling for the UK to stay in the EU.
But he has told the Telegraph that was "a mistake" and said he believed a vote to Leave "is better for defence".
The government has previously said Britain will "never be part of an EU army".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Something like that, I think. carries a lot more weight than the histrionic posturing we've been seeing from the politicians and their cronies!
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Osborne has warned that leaving will mean he'll have to SLASH the welfare budget and that AUSTERITY will have to be extended for a further 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised he'll find an excuse to do/try that anyway, regardless of which way we go.
Agreed Fluffs
Eugene's Lair posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
I wish the vote was this week. So want this to be over and done with.
The problem is that it's not going to be over and done with.
If the vote is for "Remain", then unless it's by a large margin (which is becoming increasingly unlikely) we're going to get into "neverendum" territory. Farage has already strongly intimated that he'll be pushing for another referendum sooner rather than later.
It will go on for years.
If the vote is for "Leave", then the news for ages is going to be dominated by the fallout: the Tory leadership battle; the exit deal negotiations; the attempts at free trade negotiations; another Scottish independence referendum (based on Scotland staying in the EU); the Budget and other economic repercussions; etc..
It will go on for years.
So, what you are saying is that it's a bit like England beating Germany in the final of the 2016 Euros. Germany being unhappy with the result get the match replayed again and again until they win, but then England are unhappy so they get the game replayed until they win and then Germany are unhappy so yet again we get the game replayed and this continues until our sun becomes a red giant destroying planet Earth in the process.
No wonder people are so turned off politics.
Great analogy, EC
I think the saddest thing about it all ....much as in any ordinary election .....is the inability of people to accept that they might have one perfectly valid view , while others see things differently. Personally I get very tired of some of the nastiness I see flung about ....not here per se ....but certainly in other social mediums. There seems an innate inability to debate this in a civilised manner .
Baz posted:I think the saddest thing about it all ....much as in any ordinary election .....is the inability of people to accept that they might have one perfectly valid view , while others see things differently. Personally I get very tired of some of the nastiness I see flung about ....not here per se ....but certainly in other social mediums. There seems an innate inability to debate this in a civilised manner .
Very well put Bazzy and also very true
I agree Baz and Moonie, very sad to see so much nastiness flying about, as you say Baz not necessarily here but in other places.. I know people on both sides have very strong views and feel very passionately about this very important subject. Mutual respect is very much needed.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Great analogy, EC
Thanks Fluffy.
I think you can easily guess where my inspiration came from.
I shall be glad when it's all over. Sick of the lies and cr*p that is being thrown about...
If you are an "undecided" how can you make up your mind which way to vote with the tripe that is coming from both side. RIP United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Enough said from me on the subject until Friday 
More comedy gold from Kate Hooey describing Europe as dysfunctional!
If she gets her way and leaves, then the subsequent destabilisation and crisis of hegemony, followed by Putin picking off the weaker states at the less fashionable end of the continent will make Europe as dysfunctional as Stockton High Street on market day.
Panic stations !!!!
Can't find my voting card.
You don't need it!
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Panic stations !!!!
Can't find my voting card.
Generally you can still vote without the card.
Garage Joe posted:You don't need it!
Normally they check it against a sheet. Will proof of ID and address be enough?
Although I've not yet checked my bills box.
One of the issues of "last weeks events" was that immediately after the cold blooded murder of the Yorkshire MP, Britain First went into overdrive denying any link. This was quickly followed by the release of photos of the murderer at Britain First events. Given that there is a section of outers who call people in favour of remaining, "traitors" and that this piece said "Death to traitors!" in court then that's a good enough link for me.
What a dichotomy that these scum call us all traitors for supporting the so-called undemocratic EC. Then one of there associates murder a democratically elected MP. One would at least expect the Brexit hierarchy to distance themselves from these swivel eyed loons.
To sum up:-
Remain: Better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.
Leave: Might as well go for the devil you don't know, 'cos it surely can't be any worse than the horror that is the devil you DO know!
In other words.......It's up to you folks!
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Garage Joe posted:You don't need it!
Normally they check it against a sheet. Will proof of ID and address be enough?
Although I've not yet checked my bills box.
On the occasions I have not had my card I just go in and give my name and address - never been asked for anything else.
I've lost/forgotten my polling card, can I still vote?
Don't let that stop you voting, you don't need your polling card to vote if you are on the electoral register - and if you are unsure where you polling station is, your local authority can remind you.
You can find the contact details of your local authority by entering your postcode in the 'Your local area' section on our registration website, www.aboutmyvote.co.uk
I can't think of any strong reason. We were always brought up to believe that trade was important. This is an excellent local market.
We all vote in our representatives. The EC doesn't tell us what to do as such, hence we have borders and various vetoes on EC decisions.
I'm not keen on Serbia joining mind.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Garage Joe posted:You don't need it!
Normally they check it against a sheet. Will proof of ID and address be enough?
Although I've not yet checked my bills box.
I've never had to show my card - just give my name and address and assuming nobody's stolen my vote, and my name's not been crossed out they've given me the ballot slip.
I'm voting remain,I'm a socialist and anything that the cretin that is Farage is for I'm against.Though I hate the Tories too.
Baz posted:If our poll >>>>> is anything to go by it's a draw
Take no notice of polls
Baz posted:If our poll >>>>> is anything to go by it's a draw
We should have another Wednesday
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Garage Joe posted:You don't need it!
Normally they check it against a sheet. Will proof of ID and address be enough?
Although I've not yet checked my bills box.
never been asked for I.d.walk in give name and address and get handed ballot paper.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Baz posted:If our poll >>>>> is anything to go by it's a draw
We should have another Wednesday
Good idea, but my mind has been made up from the get go
Baz posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Baz posted:If our poll >>>>> is anything to go by it's a draw
We should have another Wednesday
Give me a nudge around Mastercard time.
We should be able to create governments the way we can fantasy football teams. I'd have Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson on the same team.
I saw a snippet of Ruth Davidson, first time I've ever agreed with her I think. Mind you, she used their own quotes to hammer home her point so it was easy for me to agree with her.
Dame_Ann_Average posted:
I saw a snippet of Ruth Davidson, first time I've ever agreed with her I think. Mind you, she used their own quotes to hammer home her point so it was easy for me to agree with her.
ah yes, but if we use my 'Fantasy Government' plan - we get to set the rules.... 
Despite her dodgy affiliations - I like her and she's a bloomin' good speaker.
Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie And the majority of people will only listen to/accept the views of those politicians/ pundits they already agree with ... 'tis human nature ..so the whole * arguments/debates * thing is a bit of a waste of time
Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
I agree ....although I don't think even the politicians and pundits really know all the ins and outs ( pardon the pun ) , so it's not really surprising that the GBP don't understand it either
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
I agree ....although I don't think even the politicians and pundits really know all the ins and outs ( pardon the pun
I honestly think that it's finely balanced, Baz - for me it's mainly about security of the economy and not gambling on maybe getting better some day, maybe not (I know we're on opposite sides) TBH I got most annoyed at the attitude during the indy ref when the statement above was followed by 'I think I'll vote out - why should 'those English' tell us what to do?' Moron.
Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
I agree ....although I don't think even the politicians and pundits really know all the ins and outs ( pardon the pun
People could go looking for the info themselves and look at both sides of the argument and make an informed opinion from that
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Kaffs posted:Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
I agree ....although I don't think even the politicians and pundits really know all the ins and outs ( pardon the pun
People could go looking for the info themselves and look at both sides of the argument and make an informed opinion from that
Yes , I supposed so .....if you have a PhD in economics/international relations etc. and hundreds of spare hours to read all the primary sources Anything else you read has been put together by someone else...and therefore , to a greater or lesser extent has a degree of bias .
What have we in Britain 'Gained' by joining the EU, besides not having to dip into our purses or bum bag for our passports whilst travelling, cheaper Brie and French wine?
Kaffs posted:We should be able to create governments the way we can fantasy football teams. I'd have Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson on the same team.
Is that the good team or the bad team though?
What have the Romans ever done for us?
Kaffs posted:We should be able to create governments the way we can fantasy football teams. I'd have Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson on the same team.
Red card for Farage, I think
Baz posted:Moonie posted:I think a low percentage of people will be persuaded either way by the rubbish regurgitated by either side.
Most will go with their gut feeling.
Spot on Moonie
Yes indeed Bazzy
There hasn't been much 'debating' anyway. Just a load of waffle, untruths and supposition. Well this could happen or that could happen. Well no one really knows what will happen in either case.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Kaffs posted:We should be able to create governments the way we can fantasy football teams. I'd have Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson on the same team.
Is that the good team or the bad team though?
Well, It's my fantasy government so I set the manifesto.. therefore.. the good team, obviously. Ruth's taking penalties - she smacked Boris the Buffoon with a few good shots last night.
Madame Arcati posted:Kaffs posted:We should be able to create governments the way we can fantasy football teams. I'd have Sadiq Khan and Ruth Davidson on the same team.
Red card for Farage, I think
Absolutely - he's not even fit to clean the boots.
Kaffs posted:I agree - but what p's me off more is the people who say (and there's one across the office from me) 'I don't really understand all that stuff.... it won't make any difference to me anyway... ' and then say 'but I have to vote' No, no you don't, if you have no opinion and don't want to educate yourself or form an opinion - you shouldn't be allowed in the polling station. Let people who care vote it out..
^^^ this, absolutely
Kaffs posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:
I saw a snippet of Ruth Davidson, first time I've ever agreed with her I think. Mind you, she used their own quotes to hammer home her point so it was easy for me to agree with her.
ah yes, but if we use my 'Fantasy Government' plan - we get to set the rules....
BiB - I agree
Just seen on the news, if we go, looks like The Netherlands will want to go too
I've just seen someone on the news who isn't voting. She shouldn't be allowed to in any future elections either
bit of fun, good luck whichever side you're on
Attachments
Sprout posted:Just seen on the news, if we go, looks like The Netherlands will want to go too
We've given them Dutch courage?
Sorry
*gets coat*
One has the feeling that we may be out of Europe by default. If other countries have reffeyrendiums we could be left with Greece and Turkey. Lol
Not yet voted, just having a coffee and a bit of a relax in the Peace Gardens before I go put my cross in the box.
I have voted - and then had a half-mile walk home!
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:I have voted - and then had a half-mile walk home!
Good for you
I've voted too.
I've voted too. My vote went in a couple of weeks ago
I voted this morning
Hello from the outside
*said in best Adele voice*
I'm gobsmacked!
Didn't really think it would happen!.
But I see it's basically a 2 thirds/1third split in Scotland, The 2 thirds being in favour of remaining in.
I did, that's why I didn't watch. I hope you get your referendum Fluffy and you vote out...
Moonie posted:Good morning or is it?
I am shocked
Me too Moonie Just shows you not to believe the polls I suppose.
Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Good morning or is it?
I am shocked
Me too Moonie
Hi Rog
Very true
Very strange feeling here. The calm before the storm methinks and I don't mean a thunderstorm either
Oooh... apt description that. Yes, who knows whats next !
Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Good morning or is it?
I am shocked
Me too Moonie
Hi Rog
Very true
Very strange feeling here. The calm before the storm methinks and I don't mean a thunderstorm either
Have a good day Rog
Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Good morning or is it?
I am shocked
Me too Moonie
Hi Rog
Very true
Very strange feeling here. The calm before the storm methinks and I don't mean a thunderstorm either
Have a good day Rog
Thanks Moonie hope you do too xx
We're in da shit now! and it's only gonna get deeper