Cameron dances with European leaders, but will they dance to his tune?
*pulls seat up to tellybox and switches to BBC News channel*
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Cameron dances with European leaders, but will they dance to his tune?
*pulls seat up to tellybox and switches to BBC News channel*
Well there's three of them not, first off 
velvet donkey posted:They'll run rings round him like they've been doing for years.
Apparently he salutes when he meets Frau Merkel.
I've heard it's just before he kisses her feet
squiggle posted:velvet donkey posted:They'll run rings round him like they've been doing for years.
Apparently he salutes when he meets Frau Merkel.
I've heard it's just before he kisses her feet
Baz posted:I will just be glad when they make up their darn minds one way or another , then I can concentrate on which way I am going to vote in the referendum !!!
Yeah, we need a concise list of pros and cons 
At the minute I want out but that changes daily
velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
Awww 
,
Baz posted:Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
I'm sick of the ongoing cough I have Bazzy....but hey...there's worse peeps than me
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
I'm sick of the ongoing cough I have Bazzy....but hey...there's worse peeps than me
Perhaps go back to doc ?
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
I'm sick of the ongoing cough I have Bazzy....but hey...there's worse peeps than me
If it doesn't clear within a week (although I've had it for two weeks now) I think I'll have to And that said I don't know that they can do anything. They don't give anti's any more 
I've gone OT again 
velvet donkey posted:Reported.
It's three falls or a submission.
I'll beat you in an arm wrestling contest any day! 
velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Problems.....problems.....problems.....what..to..do?..........
Syd posted:Problems.....problems.....problems.....what..to..do?..........
I don't have a clue which way I am going to vote.
OUT OUT OUT!!!
Baz posted:Videostar posted:OUT OUT OUT!!!
Hell no. 
Videostar posted:OUT OUT OUT!!!
Decisive aren't you?
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Videostar posted:OUT OUT OUT!!!
Decisive aren't you?
Oh, I am Bazzy. I want out.....for the minute
Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:velvet donkey posted:The cons are civil war in Europe.
But the upside is we have Trident.
Imagine pulling that button, it didnae work, and Trump puts you through to an Indian call centre.
Stoppit will ya! I've got a bad chest due to two horrendous colds off the belt and can't breathe properly!
I'm sick of the ongoing cough I have Bazzy....but hey...there's worse peeps than me
If it doesn't clear within a week (although I've had it for two weeks now) I think I'll have to
The adage when I was a youngster went something like this......'treat a cold and it clears in a week, leave it alone and it takes 7 days.
Well, apparently it takes 8 days now!
Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Yeah, but with Gideot waiting to take over.......
Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout postedIf it doesn't clear within a week (although I've had it for two weeks now) I think I'll have toThe adage when I was a youngster went something like this......'treat a cold and it clears in a week, leave it alone and it takes 7 days.
Well, apparently it takes 8 days now!
Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Everyone to their own I just hate the Tory party and everything they stand for
I smell a rat here, no way would the other 27 leaders all agree anything that would seriously benefit this country.
Cameron is pulling a fast one on us.
velvet donkey posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Aye Captain U Kipper
I swear my Kipper name on DS has nothing to do with politics.
Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Everyone to their own
Voted Labour all my life but I don't think it's party political anymore. It's what's best for "us the people" but hey what the hell do I know
Videostar posted:I smell a rat here, no way would the other 27 leaders all agree anything that would seriously benefit this country.
Cameron is pulling a fast one on us.
I've just said in another fred. They all want us in (hence they're not agreeing to what we want) because of what they can get out of us
Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Everyone to their own
Voted Labour all my life but I don't think it's party political anymore. It's what's best for "us the people" but hey what the hell do I know
Well it's certain that Cameron and his cronies doesn't have our best interests at heart
Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Everyone to their own
Voted Labour all my life but I don't think it's party political anymore. It's what's best for "us the people" but hey what the hell do I know
Well it's certain that Cameron and his cronies doesn't have our best interests at heart
All politicians are out to feather their own nests
velvet donkey posted:Videostar posted:velvet donkey posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Aye Captain U Kipper
I swear my Kipper name on DS has nothing to do with politics.
I believe you
On the old ch4 forums over a decade ago I used that name...long before (you know who) existed.
Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Videostar posted:Remember guys, if we vote out we get the added bonus of Cameron resigning too as an out vote is likely to make his position as PM very impossible...and the Tory party will be in turmoil.
Can't be any worse than the Labour Party is...
Jezza's got more sense than all the Tory party put together
I reserve my judgement on that Sprouty
Everyone to their own
Voted Labour all my life but I don't think it's party political anymore. It's what's best for "us the people" but hey what the hell do I know
Well it's certain that Cameron and his cronies doesn't have our best interests at heart
All politicians are out to feather their own nests
Moonie posted:All politicians are out to feather their own nests
No, not all. There are some that know what is going on. Trouble is, they are few and far between
Sprout posted:Moonie posted:All politicians are out to feather their own nestsNo, not all. There are some that know what is going on. Trouble is, they are few and far between
It's easy to be magnanimous while in opposition Sprout , but I am willing to put money on them /him ditching his principles ....or at least watering them down once in power .....they always do
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:All politicians are out to feather their own nestsNo, not all. There are some that know what is going on. Trouble is, they are few and far between
It's easy to be magnanimous while in opposition Sprout , but I am willing to put money on them /him ditching his principles ....or at least watering them down once in power .....they always do
As has Cameron
Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:All politicians are out to feather their own nestsNo, not all. There are some that know what is going on. Trouble is, they are few and far between
It's easy to be magnanimous while in opposition Sprout , but I am willing to put money on them /him ditching his principles ....or at least watering them down once in power .....they always do
As has Cameron
No argument from me ......I'm a realist ....like I said , they all do ...twas ever thus TBH the complications of government mean everything gets watered down
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Sprout posted:Moonie posted:All politicians are out to feather their own nestsNo, not all. There are some that know what is going on. Trouble is, they are few and far between
It's easy to be magnanimous while in opposition Sprout , but I am willing to put money on them /him ditching his principles ....or at least watering them down once in power .....they always do
As has Cameron
No argument from me ......I'm a realist ....like I said , they all do ...twas ever thus
Good job we haven't got a hosepipe ban then Bazzy
They finally have a deal. There was only one way to settle it.
Scotty posted:They finally have a deal. There was only one way to settle it.
For anyone who wants to read what had been agreed, this 37 page document by the European Council goes into detail.
http://www.consilium.europa.eu...UCO-Conclusions_pdf/
Under Starters Orders...
In the Scottish referendum one of the scaremongering tactics was to tell Scotland how a YES vote would turf us out of Europe, but now he's quite happy to play with the possibility of the whole of the UK being out of Europe.
I.E. 'Don't vote for independence as it'll take you out of Europe, but we might take you out of Europe later anyway!' 
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:In the Scottish referendum one of the scaremongering tactics was to tell Scotland how a YES vote would turf us out of Europe, but now he's quite happy to play with the possibility of the whole of the UK being out of Europe.
I.E. 'Don't vote for independence as it'll take you out of Europe, but we might take you out of Europe later anyway!'
Fun int it Fluffs
Moonie posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:In the Scottish referendum one of the scaremongering tactics was to tell Scotland how a YES vote would turf us out of Europe, but now he's quite happy to play with the possibility of the whole of the UK being out of Europe.
I.E. 'Don't vote for independence as it'll take you out of Europe, but we might take you out of Europe later anyway!'
Fun int it Fluffs
Yes, we're permanently creased!
Wonder what he'll do if the referendum SHOULD return an OUT result.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Moonie posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:In the Scottish referendum one of the scaremongering tactics was to tell Scotland how a YES vote would turf us out of Europe, but now he's quite happy to play with the possibility of the whole of the UK being out of Europe.
I.E. 'Don't vote for independence as it'll take you out of Europe, but we might take you out of Europe later anyway!'
Fun int it Fluffs
Yes, we're permanently creased!
Wonder what he'll do if the referendum SHOULD return an OUT result.
I don't think it matters to him as this is gonna be his last *term*
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
Baz posted:We now have a date .....June 23rd .....concentrates the mind a bit
With that in mind , and allowing for the fact that I will never be able to understand ALL various aspects of the debate , I think I have decided to go with my gut feeling and vote no
Is that No To Staying In, or No To Getting OUT?
Moonie posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Moonie posted:Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:In the Scottish referendum one of the scaremongering tactics was to tell Scotland how a YES vote would turf us out of Europe, but now he's quite happy to play with the possibility of the whole of the UK being out of Europe.
I.E. 'Don't vote for independence as it'll take you out of Europe, but we might take you out of Europe later anyway!'
Fun int it Fluffs
Yes, we're permanently creased!
Wonder what he'll do if the referendum SHOULD return an OUT result.
I don't think it matters to him as this is gonna be his last *term*
I'm pretty certain Cameron wants to stay , but he's been forced into the referendum by the split in his own party.
As to why it matters to him: it's all about legacy. "Securing the UK's position within a reformed Europe" is the only thing likely to prevent him being remembered solely as *ahem* the PM with the pig...
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
I want out at the minute, but like you I want clear and concise lists of pros and cons
Sprout posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
I want out at the minute, but like you I want clear and concise lists of pros and cons
Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
I want out at the minute, but like you I want clear and concise lists of pros and cons
Yes, can I help you?
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
Well said EC - me too
Things are spun so much these days, it's hard to know anymore
Sprout posted:Moonie posted:Sprout posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
I want out at the minute, but like you I want clear and concise lists of pros and cons
Yes, can I help you?
Hope, was just
Still haven't made up me mind yet. Like you I am waiting to hear the pros and cons but without all the spin attached
me...I'm an innie
Sprout posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
At the moment I am on the side of 'stay in' but would like to hear all of the pro's and con's laid out without any of the usual political waffle.
I want out at the minute, but like you I want clear and concise lists of pros and cons
So you could say that you want the 'bear essentials'.
*tries avvie related pun*
*Groans again*
Dame_Ann_Average posted:me...I'm an innie
Dame I can see that... pull your shirt down wlll ya
I've been reading up on this for weeks...I'm definitely in and god helps up if we come out and leave it to Gidiot ...hang on for the ride or buy a gun
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Baz posted:We now have a date .....June 23rd .....concentrates the mind a bit
Is that No To Staying In, or No To Getting OUT?
I'm Out
Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:me...I'm an innie
Dame I can see that... pull your shirt down wlll ya
Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:me...I'm an innie
Dame I can see that... pull your shirt down wlll ya
I actually I'm an innie...well last time I saw it *tugs vest top down* 
Dame_Ann_Average posted:I've been reading up on this for weeks...I'm definitely in
That's the only thing that really frightens me
Sprout posted:That's the only thing that really frightens me
apart from that, read all the benefits we get from it and compare that to what we lose and then make your mind up
Well I said I wanted a clear and concise list of pros and cons. If someone can come up with one, I could be swayed 
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:me...I'm an innie
Dame I can see that... pull your shirt down wlll ya
I actually I'm an innie...well last time I saw it
I'm an innie too Dame.... and I definitely have trouble seeing mine these days! 
Sprout posted:Well I said I wanted a clear and concise list of pros and cons. If someone can come up with one, I could be swayed
Don't look at me Sproot
Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:me...I'm an innie
Dame I can see that... pull your shirt down wlll ya
I actually I'm an innie...well last time I saw it
I'm an innie too Dame.... and I definitely have trouble seeing mine these days!
I'm an innie too and saying nowt
Roger the Alien posted:
I'm an innie too Dame.... and I definitely have trouble seeing mine these days!
forum twins I prefer innies
interesting polling video, but you will have to go to the link at channel 4
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:
I'm an innie too Dame.... and I definitely have trouble seeing mine these days!
Yeh too right Dame! outies are proper freaky
Aww that reminds me... when I was a little girl I thought babies came out of your bellybutton I had it all figured out!
Ah, I've had a quick look but will look at it a bit more tomorrow
Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:
I'm an innie too Dame.... and I definitely have trouble seeing mine these days!
Yeh too right Dame! outies are proper freaky
Aww that reminds me... when I was a little girl I thoughtt babies came out of your bellybutton
Roger the Alien posted:Yeh too right Dame! outies are proper freaky
Aww that reminds me... when I was a little girl I thoughtt babies came out of your bellybutton
I think I did too...after childbirth I reckoned I would patent a belly zip
*soz, I've taken it off topic*
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:Yeh too right Dame! outies are proper freaky
Aww that reminds me... when I was a little girl I thoughtt babies came out of your bellybutton
I think I did too...after childbirth I reckoned I would patent a belly zip
*soz, I've taken it off topic*
Nah Dame! My fault! I have form for it, soz
Roger the Alien posted:
I was a willing partner in crime I must remember my belly button isn't quite as big as Europe...Belgium perhaps, not Europe
Roger the Alien posted:Dame_Ann_Average posted:Roger the Alien posted:Yeh too right Dame! outies are proper freaky
Aww that reminds me... when I was a little girl I thoughtt babies came out of your bellybutton
I think I did too...after childbirth I reckoned I would patent a belly zip
*soz, I've taken it off topic*
I can do it too. I did it the other night in EL's fred
velvet donkey posted:It's one of the biggest decisions of our time Moons. I just worry with the far right making moves in Europe push might come to shove. Mind you the far right wants out here.
It's one for the thinking man's woman. Joan Bakewell.
I'm still on the fence tbh Velvet. Long time to go to be persuaded either way, if we can get through the spin, that is
Moonie posted:Farage spoke a lot of sense on 5 Live yesterday about Cameron's 'so called negotiations' yesterday
Could never vote for his lot though tbh
Yes! I heard that. He did, didn't he Moonie
He seems to really skewer the problems with the EU governing machine
From what I've read Cameron hasn't got ANY of what he wanted (and did any of us want it anyway?) What he's got (apparently) is watered down things and compromises with codecils. Does any of it make any real difference?
Roger the Alien posted:Moonie posted:Farage spoke a lot of sense on 5 Live yesterday about Cameron's 'so called negotiations' yesterday
Could never vote for his lot though tbh
Yes! I heard that. He did, didn't he Moonie
He seems to really skewer the problems with the EU governing machine
Exactly Rog
Bo-Jo just confirmed he's out
Was this the cast of CBB1?
I've got the PM's address to the House Of Commons on. The way it's being put to us there, I could be persuaded to vote in. I'm still so confused though and maybe things will become more clearer in the next couple of months.
Also...with what he's come back with, if we vote to stay in is there anything else to be worked on or is that it does anyone know please?
Also, programme on BBC1 at 8.30 tonight if anyone's interested
Baz posted:Thanks for the heads up Sprout ...will record the 8.30 programme
Sprout posted:I've got the PM's address to the House Of Commons on. The way it's being put to us there, I could be persuaded to vote in. I'm still so confused though and maybe things will become more clearer in the next couple of months.
Also...with what he's come back with, if we vote to stay in is there anything else to be worked on or is that it does anyone know please?
Also, programme on BBC1 at 8.30 tonight if anyone's interested
Thanks for the heads up, Sprout. I still don't know which way to vote, so I'll record the programme.
Extra kudos to Johnny Kipper - I don't know how he has pulled it off, as it were.
I don't know a single person who wanted to leave or renegotiate terms although I know a lot of people who couldn't be bothered to vote for a representative!
i suppose the more amusing side of it is that Johnny keeps saying that he is doing it for the working man but if you examine the manifesto you'll find no sign of reinstating trade union power, working contracts, working hours, paid overtime, or direct benefit pensions.
Neither is there any schadenfreude in watching the Tories tear themselves apart since we'll have our go with Trident later on.
I missed most of the flippin prog. Forgot it was on cos the telly was on another channel
Baz posted:Ooooo I'd forgotten about our lovely , old type blue passports ......instead of the scrappy red ones we have now
That bit doesn't bother me. I don't travel
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:Ooooo I'd forgotten about our lovely , old type blue passports ......instead of the scrappy red ones we have now
That bit doesn't bother me. I don't travel
Nor do I nowadays Sprout ....but I was royally cheesed off when they gave us the Euro ones
velvet donkey posted:Baz is twenty fourth in line Sprouty. But she keeps it quiet. Baroness Rothmere of Dorking
You know, I can well see that
Baz posted:Ooooo I'd forgotten about our lovely , old type blue passports ......instead of the scrappy red ones we have now
..Felt.like.a.real.book.into.a.world.of.adventures.....
Unsure atm
stay or leave won't make much difference as far as I can see it but one might get Nigel offa the tellybox quicker than the other
Moonie posted:It would be easier to make up our minds, if we haven't already, if we had all the facts without the spin
There.will.always.be.spinners.......it.is.what.makes.the.world.go.round.....................unfortunately!.
Syd posted:Moonie posted:It would be easier to make up our minds, if we haven't already, if we had all the facts without the spin
There.will.always.be.spinners.......it.is.what.makes.the.world.go.round.....................unfortunately!.
So, how do we and I mean me in particular, sort the wheat from the chaff then Syd?
Moonie posted:Syd posted:Moonie posted:It would be easier to make up our minds, if we haven't already, if we had all the facts without the spin
There.will.always.be.spinners.......it.is.what.makes.the.world.go.round.....................unfortunately!.
So, how do we and I mean me in particular, sort the wheat from the chaff then Syd?
I.personally.hate.taking.sides......most.stories.have.two.sides......I.(personally).do.think.that.there.is.a.lot.wrong.in.the.world.at.the.moment.and.I.do.not.trust.any.party's.hand.in.dealing.with.it..............sad,but,true.....
Syd posted:Moonie posted:Syd posted:Moonie posted:It would be easier to make up our minds, if we haven't already, if we had all the facts without the spin
There.will.always.be.spinners.......it.is.what.makes.the.world.go.round.....................unfortunately!.
So, how do we and I mean me in particular, sort the wheat from the chaff then Syd?
I.personally.hate.taking.sides......most.stories.have.two.sides......I.(personally).do.think.that.there.is.a.lot.wrong.in.the.world.at.the.moment.and.I.do.not.trust.any.party's.hand.in.dealing.with.it..............sad,but,true.....
I don't think it's a matter of taking sides Syd. It's a matter of getting unbiased information so we, the general public, can make an informed decision on what will affect the rest of our lives, based on fact and not spin...
There's only one way to sort this out...
It might come to that Rog
Sprout posted:It might come to that Rog
Roger the Alien posted:Sprout posted:It might come to that Rog
Boris looks as though he's got more meat on him
Syd posted:Moonie posted:Syd posted:Moonie posted:It would be easier to make up our minds, if we haven't already, if we had all the facts without the spin
There.will.always.be.spinners.......it.is.what.makes.the.world.go.round.....................unfortunately!.
So, how do we and I mean me in particular, sort the wheat from the chaff then Syd?
I.personally.hate.taking.sides......most.stories.have.two.sides......I.(personally).do.think.that.there.is.a.lot.wrong.in.the.world.at.the.moment.and.I.do.not.trust.any.party's.hand.in.dealing.with.it..............sad,but,true.....
Trouble is Moonie , that unless we read every document ever written on the subject, it is always going to be based on* spin* of one sort or another .
That's the problem Baz, each one having a different take on it. That's why I said we need clear and concise list of pros and cons (maybe written by someone who isn't involved in it? I dunno
This is a real big, big decision for all of us
Sprout posted:Roger the Alien posted:Sprout posted:It might come to that Rog
Boris looks as though he's got more meat on him
Sprout posted:That's the problem Baz, each one having a different take on it. That's why I said we need clear and concise list of pros and cons (maybe written by someone who isn't involved in it? I dunno
why not do what I did and read about it...I'm ignoring any spin and voting on what I have read and weighed up myself. I'm not listening to any political crap on it...done and dusted in my head
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Sprout posted:That's the problem Baz, each one having a different take on it. That's why I said we need clear and concise list of pros and cons (maybe written by someone who isn't involved in it? I dunno
why not do what I did and read about it...I'm ignoring any spin and voting on what I have read and weighed up myself. I'm not listening to any political crap on it...done and dusted in my head
Yes, but what are you reading ? The actual documents or a newspaper ?
Baz posted:Yes, but what are you reading ? The actual documents or a newspaper ?
nothing that a politician is spouting I never read mainstream news now, but the groups I'm in send links to various things...for and against for people to make their own mind up
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Baz posted:Yes, but what are you reading ? The actual documents or a newspaper ?
nothing that a politician is spouting
I'm open to offers
Sprout posted:I'm open to offers
I'll put as many links as I can in here...for and against
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Sprout posted:I'm open to offers
I'll put as many links as I can in here...for and against
Whatever you think PM me if you want to, if that's better for you
From where I'm sitting it's the Scottish referendum all over again - just wearing different clothes!!
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
Anyone taken my survey yet?
Have you seen Farage's super-ugly tie?
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
I've voted in your survey. I'm undecided atm.
Yogi19 posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
I've voted in your survey. I'm undecided atm.
Ta Yogi.
Let's see how people thoughts change over the coming 17 months.
Baz posted:I voted in the survey ages ago
Me too! The same day as you in fact
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Yogi19 posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
I've voted in your survey. I'm undecided atm.
Ta Yogi.
Let's see how people thoughts change over the coming 17 months.
Sprout posted:Baz posted:I voted in the survey ages ago
Me too! The same day as you in fact
I might have done too!
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:Sprout posted:Baz posted:I voted in the survey ages ago
Me too! The same day as you in fact
I might have done too!
You did along with others , but only Baz and me commented
Sprout posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Yogi19 posted:Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:
Survey ---------------------------->
Check out the survey
I've voted in your survey. I'm undecided atm.
Ta Yogi.
Let's see how people thoughts change over the coming 17 months.
Yes Sprout, It's going to feel like 17 months.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:Sprout posted:
Yes Sprout, It's going to feel like 17 months.
If you let it
I love this guy.... *warning, sweary words* I've not put the youtube link in because there is a swear word in the title...I dinnae want a banning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMHN5BnD00E
^^^^^^
Sprout posted:
he's good...there are loads on youtube...normally he's bang on
Switzerland has withdrawn its application to join the EU....it's only been pending for 25 yrs......so I'm with Switzerland......may as well pull up the drawbridge before the entire thing collapses....which it surely will sooner or later
Kaytee posted:Switzerland has withdrawn its application to join the EU....it's only been pending for 25 yrs......so I'm with Switzerland......may as well pull up the drawbridge before the entire thing collapses....which it surely will sooner or later
And unsurprisingly , I'm with you Kaytee Let's get out while the going is good !!!
Kaytee posted:Switzerland has withdrawn its application to join the EU....it's only been pending for 25 yrs......so I'm with Switzerland......may as well pull up the drawbridge before the entire thing collapses....which it surely will sooner or later
I see what you're saying but it's just so confusing at the minute....first I was out, now i'm in...but could be out. What are we all to do?
velvet donkey posted:We've got Christopher Ward and Bremont.
I'm sure we can take it to Rolex, Patek Philippe, Omega, Jaeger Le-Coultre
What if I wanna be by myself though? There's no one selling Europe to me at the minute (depending on what I read and who I speak to)
velvet donkey posted:There's no-one selling it to me either
What's the point of a country if you cannae run it yourself?
I totally get you Donks! and then in another breath.....it seems that we should be in. That's why I said in another fred....I need a clear cut list of pros and cons as to why we should be in or out
And by that I mean...the truth!
How much worse off are those countries that aren't in Europe I wonder?
velvet donkey posted:Watch This Week with some Blue Nun
I can hear both sides but I come down on sovereignty. Not Merkel.
Yes I want us to not be beholden to anyone else as well, but then other things I hear contradict my thoughts.
I'm hoping this all pans itself out by the time we come to vote
I also kinda like Andrew too. He seems to be able to take peeps to task
Well said Mr McDonnell! taxes just aren't fair these days!
velvet donkey posted:Yep. I love the dude
Best prog. on the telly
I like watching him and JoCo (as he calls her) together
Right peeps. I'm orf for tonight 
Nice iPad snaffle but.
I'm still on the fence, my neighbour is none too pleased.
Never give up your day job EC
If we 'Brexit' does that mean we can no longer enter Eurovision?
The positive from that would be the BBC does not waste millions funding it...
As Eurovision pre-dates the EU, I don't think a 'BREXIT' will alter anything on that score.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:As Eurovision pre-dates the EU, I don't think a 'BREXIT' will alter anything on that score.
Nil Poi 
I'm not hearing anything to move me off the fence, so as a default position I think I would rather stay in than leave, mainly because I don't want my Roquefort cheese to go up in price.
No one has said anything to convince me to vote out as yet. In fact no one has said much apart from the politicians and I ain't gonna listen to them.
We really need some proper background to it all, so that we have some chance of understanding the possibilities of how things could change (or not) in the future given a YES or NO outcome.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:We really need some proper background to it all, so that we have some chance of understanding the possibilities of how things could change (or not) in the future given a YES or NO outcome.
100% right. That's exactly what I have been saying since this started and as yet info is thin on the ground.
Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:No one has said anything to convince me to vote out as yet. In fact no one has said much apart from the politicians and I ain't gonna listen to them.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:We really need some proper background to it all, so that we have some chance of understanding the possibilities of how things could change (or not) in the future given a YES or NO outcome.
I agree with both of you. As an undecided, I need some proper facts before I can reach a decision.
there is no way I will vote out...and we should be sorting out the corruption in this country at the very top, instead of handing them more power....
Everytime I think 'OUT; I realize it's more of a knee-jerk reaction to some rubbish someone spouted, rather than an even and rational considered opinion.
velvet donkey posted:Why Cameron declared it I'll never know. There's other ways to sort out a bun fight.
Now it's an Eton Mess.
I was out, now I'm in....this could change......a lot!
renegotiating the trade agreement with Europe...and they are gonna give us a good deal, I really don't think so
Human rights, union laws and the like the tories are trying to destroy and if people think voting out of Europe is going to make us pull the drawbridge up it won't.
Has anyone read their leaflet yet? I haven't
Baz posted:Sprout posted:Has anyone read their leaflet yet? I haven't
I have .....
You're not moving though!
Sprout posted:Has anyone read their leaflet yet? I haven't
I'm sending mine back to tory headquarters freepost... I've included a little message
I made my mind up by studying the pros and cons, not by reading the cons
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Sprout posted:Has anyone read their leaflet yet? I haven't
I'm sending mine back to tory headquarters freepost... I've included a little message
I made my mind up by studying the pros and cons, not by reading the cons