Are the Government responsible for

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pretty_p

getting people out of Libya??

There has been a lot of talk this week about the Government "rescue" mission being "not good enough" however should they really be held responsible for rescuing people who have gone to that country of their own free will? Should they not have shown greater responsibility when making the decision to go there in the first place?

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kattymieowwMember 10 years

Bit of both really "Call me Dave" was found lacking as other countries got their nationals out pronto as he was touring Egypt etc...maybe send the bill to the oil companies etc.

2/25/1111:50 AM

Ensign MufMember

Only if the people there are employed by them and are there in a work capacity

2/25/1111:52 AM

Garage JoeMember

Unfortunately the current government set the agenda when in opposition. Anything that went wrong, even more surreally the economic collapse, were blamed on Labour and Gordon Brown. Obviously everything that happens now, and that includes Middlesbrough losing to QPR, will be blamed on Cameron.
Not that he will be bothered. Him and his mates have all your money.

2/25/1111:56 AM

CroctacusMember

No....a lot of the people went over to work there for big bucks and may well not be paying taxes over here...Its always been a volatile area...people knew the potential has always been there for trouble and chose to ignore it for the monetary rewards....Not the Government's responsibility at all.

2/25/1111:57 AM

SezitMember

My OH and I were having this debate. If people from here were working over in Libya, supporting Gadaffis regime, knowing full well what a murdurous dictator he is, and earning £500 a day and not paying taxes here, is it a case of "They made their beds so should lie in them?"
I think they should be rescued.

2/25/1111:58 AM

kattymieowwMember 10 years

There are humanitarian aid workers there too...not just oil workers etc .

2/25/1112:00 PM

Former Member

Originally Posted by Garage Joe

Obviously everything that happens now, and that includes Middlesbrough losing to QPR, will be blamed on Cameron.
Not that he will be bothered. Him and his mates have all your money.He's a Chelsea supporter!

2/25/1112:05 PM

Former Member

Yes.

2/25/1112:07 PM

PrometheusMember

Send them a few guns and tell them to get on with it.

2/25/1112:09 PM

Former Member

I'd imagine that most of the nationals out there are already selling guns. torture equipment and other oppressive goodies Prom.
No need to send any, they can just visit their warehouse in downtown Tripoli

2/25/1112:12 PM

kattymieowwMember 10 years

That Jordan (person) not the country, may end up looking like Gadaffi if she still goes for those mad lip injections etc..

2/25/1112:14 PM

Former Member

*Agrees with PP* I know/have known people in the distant past and more recent past who work in the middle east, (or occasionally whose other half works there,) and they reap loads of money in, like 4 or 5 grand a month or something, (in some cases....) and they are so full of it: how much 'better' the lifestyle is over there and how rich they are, and how envious us poor people must be of them... so as far as I am concerned, we have no responsibility to these people whatsover. They don't pay taxes over here and are often rather boastful about their fantastic wages, their humongous home and how amazing the weather is (300 days a year of sunshine, whoop whoop!)

So yes they made their bed, and they CAN lie in it. But I do agree that volunteers and humanitarian workers should be helped, but people who chose a life out there and have been paid bucketloads of money for X amount of years paying no tax over here??? No way. Personally, I would rather shoot myself than live in the middle east, even before all this stuff going on.... I can't imagine a worse place to live, for many different reasons.

2/25/1112:15 PM

slimfernMember VIP

I think if we can - then we should....

2/25/1112:18 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

When my ex husband and I lived in Nigeria, the company (Blue Circle) entered a contract with us to look after and get us out of trouble if it arose. Despite that, my husband contacted the American Embassy in Lagos and I contacted the Germany Embassy in Lagos as a back-up. I can tell you from very personal experience that the local pilots are not the standard you'd be looking for to save your life, although (I also know from experience) you grab at anything when things go wrong. Driving through the country is a bit of hit and miss. The official soldiers have check points, but bandits, disguised as soldiers also stop you, strip you (and I mean strip you) so you have to be on your toes, if the country is in turmoil at the same time, the situation is beyond critical. I hope this country and all the others will do their best to help the expats.

2/25/1112:20 PM

Former Member

Isn't the British embassy responsible for the safety of Britons abroad?. They have to help you, or arrange passage home.
It is annoying if its filthy rich oil executives though

2/25/1112:20 PM

Former Member

My bil has worked in Libya for about 30 years, he, and many like him, didn't go out there to earn 'big bucks,' they went when all of the industry was closing in the NE, courtesy of Mrs.Thatcher and the choice for so many was to try and get work abroad or to not work at all. So, it could be argued that they were showing great responsibility when they made the decision to go out there, by earning a living to support their family. Make no mistake about it, neither he nor any of his work mates I know would be out there if there was alternative employment available for them at home

2/25/1112:25 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Isn't the British embassy responsible for the safety of Britons abroad?. They have to help you, or arrange passage home.
It is annoying if its filthy rich oil executives though

The company people work for are responsible in the first instant, but the moral high ground can be taken by the Foreign Office, which this country failed for 3 whole days. Quite unbelievable.

2/25/1112:26 PM

MrMincePieMember

I know someone who lives in Dubai, huge salary they offered him and the lifestyle is supposed to be good. He lives in a country that is tax free... I think if anything dodgy went on where he lives, he would probably expect the government to help him out despite him no longer even living over here. Its pretty much tax avoidance... bugger off while everyone has to cough up half of what they earn over here and then when something goes wrong in Dubai, they would want the government to find ways to get them home using our money.

Of course I hope those in Libya get home safety, but I think those complaining about the rescue mission should be grateful we help them out at all. I suppose not everyone is in the same boat as the guy I know.... some may be out there for other reasons.

2/25/1112:28 PM

Former Member

Indeed col.

2/25/1112:28 PM

Former Member

Originally Posted by cologne 1:

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Isn't the British embassy responsible for the safety of Britons abroad?. They have to help you, or arrange passage home.
It is annoying if its filthy rich oil executives though

The company people work for are responsible in the first instant, but the moral high ground can be taken by the Foreign Office, which this country failed for 3 whole days. Quite unbelievable.

No, you have rights, no matter what. I disagree, you're a British national in the first instant, thats the law.

2/25/1112:32 PM

pretty_pMember

Originally Posted by MrMincePie:

Of course I hope those in Libya get home safety, but I think those complaining about the rescue mission should be grateful we help them out at all.

Completely agree!!

2/25/1112:35 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Hi velvet.

Mincepie, The money issue really does not make up for the safety. My ex husband had to pay taxes on his income, it wasn't quite as much as he would have working back here, but he had done that for 30 years, why on earth would somebody who is qualified not take up a position that would pay them a decent wage and give them a chance to explore an extremly foreign country? When we both passed the medical we had to go through, we sat in a London cab and whooped all the way back to the hotel. We were healthy and we got to go to Africa. What more can a person want?

2/25/1112:36 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Originally Posted by cologne 1:

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Isn't the British embassy responsible for the safety of Britons abroad?. They have to help you, or arrange passage home.
It is annoying if its filthy rich oil executives though

The company people work for are responsible in the first instant, but the moral high ground can be taken by the Foreign Office, which this country failed for 3 whole days. Quite unbelievable.

No, you have rights, no matter what. I disagree, you're a British national in the first instant, thats the law.

Sorry nosey, but you are quite wrong. Everything the Foreign Office does is out of obligation. The company you work for is the first port of call.

2/25/1112:38 PM

stonksMember

Yes..if you leave it to all the companies that employ the people alls you will get is congestion and confusion..just have one agency eg the government sort it then pass the bill on if thats how they feel....

When the Twin towers were first hit in the 80's I think..the people in it ran onto the roof, helicopters from everywhere tried to save them, there followed an arguement between the fire department and the Police that was'nt resumed who was in charge of rooftop rescue..so they locked the roof doors on the Twin towers....

So rather than have an arguement who should do what, just let one department sort it and bill the rest....

2/25/1112:39 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Originally Posted by stonks:

2/25/1112:41 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Just an aside stonksy, when we had to leave the compound very quickly and out of the blue, the company was excellent, neither my embassy nor my ex's did anything to help us at all.

Edit: That's not the British Embassy.

2/25/1112:43 PM

Former Member

supercalafragilistic quote:

My bil has worked in Libya for about 30 years, he, and many like him, didn't go out there to earn 'big bucks,' they went when all of the industry was closing in the NE, courtesy of Mrs.Thatcher and the choice for so many was to try and get work abroad or to not work at all. So, it could be argued that they were showing great responsibility when they made the decision to go out there, by earning a living to support their family. Make no mistake about it, neither he nor any of his work mates I know would be out there if there was alternative employment available for them at home

I don't really buy this... Yes in the 80s, it was a tough time (as it is now,) and some folk went abroad to work, but I find it hard to believe that your BIL couldn't get any work in any other country outside of the middle east for 30 years. I mean, there was a rough time for a while, but why did he not return when things got better over here? (and they did get better...) So why stay 30 years? He must have wanted to stay out there.

2/25/1112:45 PM

Former Member

Mr Mince

quote:

Of course I hope those in Libya get home safety, but I think those complaining about the rescue mission should be grateful we help them out at all.

2/25/1112:47 PM

Former Member

Originally Posted by cologne 1:

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Originally Posted by cologne 1:

Originally Posted by noseyrosie:

Isn't the British embassy responsible for the safety of Britons abroad?. They have to help you, or arrange passage home.
It is annoying if its filthy rich oil executives though

The company people work for are responsible in the first instant, but the moral high ground can be taken by the Foreign Office, which this country failed for 3 whole days. Quite unbelievable.

No, you have rights, no matter what. I disagree, you're a British national in the first instant, thats the law.

Sorry nosey, but you are quite wrong. Everything the Foreign Office does is out of obligation. The company you work for is the first port of call.

No I'm not wrong... yeah your employer is first port of call - but only if its possible for them to assist you. Its the law that governs this Cologne! As a British national, you have rights you are entitled to from your Government, when living abroad. Your British passport is more valuable than you know... I studied International Law once upon a time. Thats the case, they are responsible for your safety when you're abroad.

2/25/1112:47 PM

Soozy WooMember

No I don't think the government are directly responsible. however, i think it's simply a humane gesture helping out Britains abroad in a time of crisis. Not a responsibility exactly but .............I wouldn't really expect any less under the circumstances.

2/25/1112:49 PM

CagneyMember

Originally Posted by Cupcake:

so as far as I am concerned, we have no responsibility to these people whatsover. They don't pay taxes over here and are often rather boastful about their fantastic wages, their humongous home and how amazing the weather is (300 days a year of sunshine, whoop whoop!)

So yes they made their bed, and they CAN lie in it. But I do agree that volunteers and humanitarian workers should be helped, but people who chose a life out there and have been paid bucketloads of money for X amount of years paying no tax over here??? No way. Personally, I would rather shoot myself than live in the middle east, even before all this stuff going on.... I can't imagine a worse place to live, for many different reasons.

I too know people who've moved away and made a fortune and boasted about it but at no time would I wish this on them or leave them in a situation like thisbecause "they've made their bed".

If they are tax dodgers then deal with that when they get back here. We're talking about people, business people and maybe dodgy ones but still people. Probably with family here who care about them. NOT murderers, NOT paedophiles.....tax dodgers who thought they were better off elsewhere and are learning the hard way now that that's not always the case.

2/25/1112:54 PM

cologne 1Member Memoriam

Originally Posted by Soozy Woo:

That's what I tried to say and I not only agree, but I know from personal experience, it's true.

2/25/1112:54 PM

Former Member

Originally Posted by Cupcake:

and they are so full of it: how much 'better' the lifestyle is over there and how rich they are, and how envious us poor people must be of them...

... and are often rather boastful about their fantastic wages, their humongous home and how amazing the weather is (300 days a year of sunshine, whoop whoop!)
So yes they made their bed, and they CAN lie in it.

None of the people I know who work in Libya even remotely fit that ^^^ description at all, they're ordinary working men, who are away from their families, living on a basic compound in the middle of the desert, miles from anywhere. So, when they are there they do little but work and sleep: 14/16hr a day shifts 7 days a week. Then they come home to fairly 'ordinary' houses and time with their families.
TBH, I don't personally know anyone who works here or abroad who fits the description above, but then again, nor do I know anyone in rl who lacks the basic sense of humanity and empathy that is displayed by some of the fms on here. Maybe I'm just lucky?

2/25/111:02 PM

PeterCatMember

Originally Posted by Garage Joe:

Absobloodylutely!

2/25/111:05 PM

Former Member

Originally Posted by Cupcake:

I don't really buy this... Yes in the 80s, it was a tough time (as it is now,) and some folk went abroad to work, but I find it hard to believe that your BIL couldn't get any work in any other country outside of the middle east for 30 years. I mean, there was a rough time for a while, but why did he not return when things got better over here? (and they did get better...) So why stay 30 years? He must have wanted to stay out there.

I didn't ask you to either buy it or believe it.....and when exactly things got better for people in the NE who worked in industry, once most of the industries were closed I'm really not sure

2/25/111:10 PM

CagneyMember

Originally Posted by Cupcake:

but why did he not return when things got better over here?

Why should he?

I bet any person on here would do things to make their family life better.

Nah I take that back. There are some on here who are so bitter and narrow minded that the feelings of another person (never mind many people) is something way beyond their comprehension.

2/25/111:16 PM

Former Member

I don't think they're soley responsible, but it's a good thing to be able to do it

2/25/111:33 PM

PrometheusMember

Originally Posted by Cupcake:

why did he not return when things got better over here? (and they did get better...) So why stay 30 years? He must have wanted to stay out there.

Why should he come back if the quality of life is better for him elsewhere? What's your problem exactly? And contrary to your earlier post those people are our responsibility. If they have British passports and they're caught in a war zone it's our responsibility to get them out. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

2/25/111:45 PM

stonksMember

Originally Posted by cologne 1:

Just an aside stonksy, when we had to leave the compound very quickly and out of the blue, the company was excellent, neither my embassy nor my ex's did anything to help us at all.

Edit: That's not the British Embassy.

I read our papers today Col and our Government have'nt done much to help, apparently its too expensive to help their people....

2/25/111:48 PM

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