What was the point?
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not a lot...it will go on Col 
Nothing... Blair's vanity was fed that's all. He got to be a major statesman standing shoulder to shoulder with Bush in an ill-conceived war.
A thousand curses on him [sorry... I loathe Blair]
My son was there a couple of times as in Iraq. He didn't see an improvement nor did most of his fellow soldiers although they will not admit this in public.
my everlasting memory will be the revulsion I felt on the first attack Baghdad 
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
My son was there a couple of times as in Iraq. He didn't see an improvement nor did most of his fellow soldiers although they will not admit this in public.
You must have been very worried for him Col
I was but he's safe and sound; so many died though because of the gung ho attitude of Bush and Blair and really nothing has been achieved.
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
I was but he's safe and sound; so many died though because of the gung ho attitude of Bush and Blair and really nothing has been achieved.
Exactly Col
Afghanistan: The Lion's Last Roar has just started here on BBC2 
gonna watcch it now.
Originally Posted by Roger the Alien:
Originally Posted by cologne 1:
I was but he's safe and sound; so many died though because of the gung ho attitude of Bush and Blair and really nothing has been achieved.
Exactly Col
Afghanistan: The Lion's Last Roar has just started here on BBC2 gonna watcch it now.
I missed the beginning, will catch up tomorrow.
It's actually just short of 3500 from many allied nations killed, and 1500 contractors. There is little if any point blaming everything on Blair. The Tories, if they had joined the Labour rebels, could have brought him and his government down over these ridiculous ventures, but chose not to do so.
Originally Posted by Garage Joe:
It's actually just short of 3500 from many allied nations killed, and 1500 contractors. There is little if any point blaming everything on Blair. The Tories, if they had joined the Labour rebels, could have brought him and his government down over these ridiculous ventures, but chose not to do so.
What a ridiculous statement. He was the head of government at the time and bears responsibility.
Also - more MPs would have joined the rebels if they'd actually had the facts before them, instead of a constant flow of misinformation / PR spin churned out on both Wars. Dodgy dossier anyone? The whole thing had the vainglorious, disingenuous mark of of Blair on it.
These are the portraits of the 453 who died while serving in Afghanistan:
What? Are you saying that we live in a dictatorship now?
I should also add that those of us who actually marched against the war knew that the dossiers were dodgy, most of the press did, so why didn't the MPs know. Of course they did! And they had the power to stop it. Fair's fair! By all means attack Blair for messing up our Labour Party, but any leader of any hue would have been under orders, by whoever decides these sorts of things.
Originally Posted by Garage Joe:
I should also add that those of us who actually marched against the war knew that the dossiers were dodgy, most of the press did, so why didn't the MPs know. Of course they did! And they had the power to stop it. Fair's fair! By all means attack Blair for messing up our Labour Party, but any leader of any hue would have been under orders, by whoever decides these sorts of things.
totally agree. The Tories were more gung ho for war than Labour. Blair couldn't have gone to war without the Tories rescuing him.
It beggars belief that the Tory opposition were so gullible that they took (their political enemy's) Blair's word as gospel while ignoring the opinions of reputable sources.
Cameron has never demanded Blair be put on trail because he knows the Tory Party, and himself personally, are up to their necks in the conspiracy for war.
Originally Posted by Roger the Alien:
Originally Posted by Garage Joe:
It's actually just short of 3500 from many allied nations killed, and 1500 contractors. There is little if any point blaming everything on Blair. The Tories, if they had joined the Labour rebels, could have brought him and his government down over these ridiculous ventures, but chose not to do so.
What a ridiculous statement. He was the head of government at the time and bears responsibility.
Also - more MPs would have joined the rebels if they'd actually had the facts before them, instead of a constant flow of misinformation / PR spin churned out on both Wars. Dodgy dossier anyone? The whole thing had the vainglorious, disingenuous mark of of Blair on it.
Nope, Parliament voted for war. The opposition Tory Party voted with Blair because they WANTED war. Without Parliament's support, there could be no war. Opposition to war within the Labour party was stronger than it was in the Tory Party.
Ironically and in very much the same sort of procedure, Cameron wished us to enter into war against the perfectly adequate, secular, and decent hardworking dictator Assad.
Narrowly defeated by some heroic Tory rebels, disaster averted!
But just think! At this time our forces might have been fighting alongside ISIS!
Isn't global politics complex?
Narrowly defeated by some heroic Tory rebels, disaster averted!
But just think! At this time our forces might have been fighting alongside ISIS!
Isn't global politics complex?
Originally Posted by Carnelian:
Originally Posted by Roger the Alien:
Originally Posted by Garage Joe:
It's actually just short of 3500 from many allied nations killed, and 1500 contractors. There is little if any point blaming everything on Blair. The Tories, if they had joined the Labour rebels, could have brought him and his government down over these ridiculous ventures, but chose not to do so.
What a ridiculous statement. He was the head of government at the time and bears responsibility.
Also - more MPs would have joined the rebels if they'd actually had the facts before them, instead of a constant flow of misinformation / PR spin churned out on both Wars. Dodgy dossier anyone? The whole thing had the vainglorious, disingenuous mark of of Blair on it.
Nope, Parliament voted for war. The opposition Tory Party voted with Blair because they WANTED war. Without Parliament's support, there could be no war. Opposition to war within the Labour party was stronger than it was in the Tory Party.
Yes they were pro War. However their decision was based on the information they had, which was spin. We were 45 minutes away from annihilation remember! Blair's government had control of that information.
Lets not forget the other victim, Dr David kelly.
I'm not a Tory but you can't blame MPs for making decisions based on the facts presented before them, in parliamentary debates.
To be fair, everyone knew the facts to be wrong.
Our local pipe mills actually partially constructed a super gun (that's the level Sadman was at) before the Israeli secret service started assassinating the engineers involved! There was a debate about his WMD at that point, conveniently kicked into the long grass for the purposes of invasion!
The Israelis also destroyed his nuclear facilities in a bombing raid! Not too sure about his chemical weapons, but none were found.
As an humorous magazine VIZ said at the time, people often find lost things whilst searching for something else. So perhaps if they had looked for Sadam Hussein's spectacles, they might have found his WMD.
Our local pipe mills actually partially constructed a super gun (that's the level Sadman was at) before the Israeli secret service started assassinating the engineers involved! There was a debate about his WMD at that point, conveniently kicked into the long grass for the purposes of invasion!
The Israelis also destroyed his nuclear facilities in a bombing raid! Not too sure about his chemical weapons, but none were found.
As an humorous magazine VIZ said at the time, people often find lost things whilst searching for something else. So perhaps if they had looked for Sadam Hussein's spectacles, they might have found his WMD.
