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So!
If you talk about billions and trillions in our economy it gets confusing. But if you knock seven zeroes off all the figures, and treat it as a single household, you can get your head around it:

Our nation has an income stream of £55,000 a year
Our expenditure is £74,000 a year
We have £110,000 on the credit card
We’re getting £12,000 of new debt every year

And if you stop all benefit fraud tomorrow it would save the equivalent of £120 a year.

If you eradicated scroungers it would take 1,100 years to pay off the national debt with the money saved. If you got all corporations to pay their tax – an estimated £25bn a year – you could do it in 44 years.

Google!
Vodafone!

Starbucks!
to name but a few.........

Replies sorted oldest to newest

 

Ah, if out were only that simple. 

 

My understanding is that these companies (Google, Vodafone, Starbucks and Amazon) are working within the tax laws of the land.

 

I believe Amazon have made a tax contribution but have made it clear that it is not because they have to but because they want to.

 

The GBP could on mass stop using these companies and spend their cash on companies that operate within the UK tax system paying back into the economy.

 

But the downside would be that these organisations employ a lot of people in the UK.

 

 

 

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

slimfern
Originally Posted by Enthusiastic Contrafibularities:

 

Ah, if out were only that simple. 

 

My understanding is that these companies (Google, Vodafone, Starbucks and Amazon) are working within the tax laws of the land.

 

I believe Amazon have made a tax contribution but have made it clear that it is not because they have to but because they want to.

 

The GBP could on mass stop using these companies and spend their cash on companies that operate within the UK tax system paying back into the economy.

 

But the downside would be that these organisations employ a lot of people in the UK.

 

 

 

Within who's law......
not mine!
These businesses are creaming us for millions.......
and I totally agree........the GBP SHOULD blank em!
Absolutely!
I pay my taxes on the pittance that I earn......why the heck shouldn't they ?

slimfern
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Yogi19

Hey ferny one

 

I get what you're saying, but I wonder what the figures would look like if those big conglomerates left our country? How much tax would we lose out on from their workers? How much would our benefits bill go up?

 

We are being firmly held over the proverbial barrel

Rexi
Last edited by Rexi
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

slimfern
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Yogi19
Originally Posted by Rexi:

Hey ferny one

 

I get what you're saying, but I wonder what the figures would look like if those big conglomerates left our country? How much tax would we lose out on from their workers? How much would our benefits bill go up?

 

We are being firmly held over the proverbial barrel

Hey Sweetness 

Well...for example...let's take Starbucks......throw them out!
we still have Nero's and every other local coffee house....Paying their taxes like they should!
Starbucks would be NO loss!
Vodafone!....can think of many other mobile providers..whom all pay their taxes ...
I could go on...

Annnnd....we shouldn't be known for a country where a large corporation can just take advantage!
They take our money...they should pay our taxes!

slimfern

Hmmmmmm, noble crusade yer ferness, but i doubt it will ever happen

 

 

And, I am firmly with Yogi. Just because big businesses treat our systems unfairly, it doesn't excuse a 'little person' doing the same, however small the amount.

 

And, as EC said, these big businesses are trading within our tax laws.  It's harsh, but legal

Rexi
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Cheating the system is wrong! whoever you are..I agree Yogi!

What I am demonstrating is...that the amount is disproportionate!
The government will have you think that benefit fraud is rife...
But when you actually look at the figures... it looks like this!

 

And if you stop all benefit fraud tomorrow it would save the equivalent of £120 a year.

If you eradicated scroungers it would take 1,100 years to pay off the national debt with the money saved. If you got all corporations to pay their tax – an estimated £25bn a year – you could do it in 44 years.

A massive difference ....

slimfern
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Baz
Originally Posted by Sprout:

An extract from our local paper.......claiming for paper clips and pencil sharpeners 

 

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/...ion-leader-1-6424103

Exactly!

So let's make the little man on £70 a week JSA the villain because he works a day or two to earn a few bob...without declaring it!

slimfern
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Cheating the system is wrong! whoever you are..I agree Yogi!

What I am demonstrating is...that the amount is disproportionate!
The government will have you think that benefit fraud is rife...
But when you actually look at the figures... it looks like this!

 

And if you stop all benefit fraud tomorrow it would save the equivalent of £120 a year.

If you eradicated scroungers it would take 1,100 years to pay off the national debt with the money saved. If you got all corporations to pay their tax – an estimated £25bn a year – you could do it in 44 years.

A massive difference ....

So long as you are advocating going after the benefit cheats as well as the corporate tax dodgers, then I'm with you.

Yogi19
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Me too Baz..........
I'm assuming you both have it in for each and every MP that has cheated on their expenses......not MADE big corporations to pay what they owe ??

slimfern
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Sprout:

An extract from our local paper.......claiming for paper clips and pencil sharpeners 

 

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/...ion-leader-1-6424103

Exactly!

So let's make the little man on £70 a week JSA the villain because he works a day or two to earn a few bob...without declaring it!

The fact that her expenses claim was ridiculous does not negate that fact that your JSA man is cheating the system. It's all cheating/fraud.

Yogi19
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Cheating the system is wrong! whoever you are..I agree Yogi!

What I am demonstrating is...that the amount is disproportionate!
The government will have you think that benefit fraud is rife...
But when you actually look at the figures... it looks like this!

 

And if you stop all benefit fraud tomorrow it would save the equivalent of £120 a year.

If you eradicated scroungers it would take 1,100 years to pay off the national debt with the money saved. If you got all corporations to pay their tax – an estimated £25bn a year – you could do it in 44 years.

A massive difference ....

So long as you are advocating going after the benefit cheats as well as the corporate tax dodgers, then I'm with you.

Oh absolutely.....cheating is cheating...we all lose out as a result......but there are them up top that really take the pee.........I have a mind to let the little man wait!

slimfern

 

The benefit cheats are a tiny minority to the tax cheats, I'm not saying any of it is right... but to cheat to try and live and to cheat and stash more millions off shore to boost your already large stash of millions,,,in my book there is no contest  

 

 

Dame_Ann_Average
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Me too Baz..........
I'm assuming you both have it in for each and every MP that has cheated on their expenses......not MADE big corporations to pay what they owe ??

I don't have it in for anyone, but I don't condone cheating the system - big or small. 

Yogi19
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:

 

The benefit cheats are a tiny minority to the tax cheats, I'm not saying any of it is right... but to cheat to try and live and to cheat and stash more millions off shore to boost your already large stash of millions,,,in my book there is no contest  

 

 

But where do you draw the line, Dame? At what point do you say that cheating the system is wrong?

 

Yogi19
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Me too Baz..........
I'm assuming you both have it in for each and every MP that has cheated on their expenses......not MADE big corporations to pay what they owe ??

You're right that I have it in for MPs cheating on their expenses ....but I'm afraid I can't agree on the big corporations ....as long as they are not actually breaking the law . If we want them to pay more then the laws have to be changed .....but if their tax affairs are within the  current laws it may be that they are immoral ...but they aren't actually cheating ...IMO

Baz
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Me too Baz..........
I'm assuming you both have it in for each and every MP that has cheated on their expenses......not MADE big corporations to pay what they owe ??

I don't have it in for anyone, but I don't condone cheating the system - big or small. 

Same here Yogi ....

Baz
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Baz:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by slimfern:
Originally Posted by Yogi19:

I get what you are saying, Ferny, but for me, beating/cheating the system is wrong - regardless of the amounts involved. 

I totally agree Yogi........but when you look at the figures.....them that already claim a decent wage from our taxes....to then go on & claim expenses for X amounts for all sorts of reasons....really doesn't compare!

Sorry Ferny, who do you mean? 

Them that rule us...them that claim expenses from the tax pot....
And them that make money on the backs of us & then don't pay what they owe!

In comparison ....the amount claimed fraudulently by the individual that has nowt..........to those who earns loads and still seek to cheat the system.....is vast!. to say the least. 

The expenses fiddling was atrocious, but it doesn't excuse benefit fiddling.

Too many people think it's okay to cheat and steal because it's only a small amount. Well, imo, it isn't okay. It's wrong, and I'm not going to dismiss it because somebody else is cheating/fiddling bigger amounts. 

At times, I feel that this country has lost its moral compass, it's depressing.

Sorry Slimfern ....I'm with Yogi on this one ...cheating is cheating , big or small  

Me too Baz..........
I'm assuming you both have it in for each and every MP that has cheated on their expenses......not MADE big corporations to pay what they owe ??

You're right that I have it in for MPs cheating on their expenses ....but I'm afraid I can't agree on the big corporations ....as long as they are not actually breaking the law . If we want them to pay more then the laws have to be changed .....but if their tax affairs are within the  current laws it may be that they are immoral ...but they aren't actually cheating ...IMO

Yup

Rexi
Originally Posted by Yogi19:
Originally Posted by Dame_Ann_Average:

 

The benefit cheats are a tiny minority to the tax cheats, I'm not saying any of it is right... but to cheat to try and live and to cheat and stash more millions off shore to boost your already large stash of millions,,,in my book there is no contest  

 

 

But where do you draw the line, Dame? At what point do you say that cheating the system is wrong?

 

I'm with Damesy on this one...stashing money along with what is already 'ferreted away' is wrong 

FM