soooooooooooo, looks like we are going to have to pay the same amount to stay in the single market, sooooooooooo, it looks like we still have to abide by EU rules, sooooooooooo we are now giving firms sweeteners to stay sooooooooooo, the NHS is facing another massive cut....like we said. Wish someone would explain to me invoking article 50 is a good idea? 

pound is low,imports costing more from basics like tea to high tech goods etc.The dollar is used not the pound.we are not important,well done brexiteers......not.

They don't have a clue.

I was reading earlier about the argument about whether parliament should get a vote on the BREXIT deal PM May is trying to broker. She says no, it's up to her alone, whilst the courts have said yes, it shouldn't be her unilateral views of what SHE decides is best for the UK and its population. There was one argument FOR parliament getting a vote that I though put it very well. 'The UK may well have voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote for HOW we leave or where we'll be going.'

Sterling has risen sharply following the High Court ruling on Article 50, while the FTSE 100 has fallen back.

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

I was reading earlier about the argument about whether parliament should get a vote on the BREXIT deal PM May is trying to broker. She says no, it's up to her alone, whilst the courts have said yes, it shouldn't be her unilateral views of what SHE decides is best for the UK and its population. There was one argument FOR parliament getting a vote that I though put it very well. 'The UK may well have voted to leave the EU, but they didn't vote for HOW we leave or where we'll be going.'

Exactly.

Also I was listening to Gina Miller talk about why she brought the case, and one interesting point she made was that all those Brexiteer politicians who claimed that they wanted to leave Europe in order to restore the UK Parliament’s sovereignty are now perfectly happy to deny Parliament those sovereign rights when it suits them!  

As she said: “You can’t have it both ways.”  

On a lighter note, here's how Theresa May reacted to Boris Johnson's claim that they were going to make Brexit a "Titanic" success:

After the lightweight Labour MP's performance on Question Time last night I'm ready to throw in the towel. Appalling!

PM vows to carry out Brexit 'in full' following High Court ruling

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What it does say to me is that she wants to impose HER idea of 'Brexit in full' on us regardless of how good, bad or indifferent it may be.

We voted for Brexit, yes. But surely there has to be some sort of discussion as to what form Brexit takes?!!!!!

Words fail me ! 

Sorry! I must stop trying to post attachments whilst on the hoof as it were.

THey have no idea.....and these are the people we are supposed to trust our future to!

The future's definitely NOT safe in their hands, if you ask me.

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

PM vows to carry out Brexit 'in full' following High Court ruling

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Theresa May has vowed to carry out Brexit "in full" despite the High Court ruling on leaving the EU.

The prime minister said the government needed to "get on with the job" and MPs should "accept" the referendum result.

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What does this mean?

To me it suggests that SHE doesn't understand the court rulling.

As far as I can see no-one has said the government shouldn't 'get on with the job' nor that they HAVEN'T accepted the referendum result.

What it does say to me is that she wants to impose HER idea of 'Brexit in full' on us regardless of how good, bad or indifferent it may be.

 

We voted for Brexit, yes. But surely there has to be some sort of discussion as to what form Brexit takes?!!!!!

I’ve been having to bite my lip over the last few days, but I finally lost it last night.  One of my friends was talking about political conspiracy theories and how the “Establishment” always manipulates things to its own end, and I suggested (with my tongue only slightly in my cheek   ) that if you were looking for conspiracy theories around Brexit then the real conspiracy was not that the “Liberal Intelligentsia” were trying to “rob” the GBP Brexit, but that Theresa May (helped by a certain few Press Barons) was trying to set herself above Parliament so that she would be able to “rob” the GBP of the form of Brexit they wanted.

My ”Conspiracy Theory” goes like this: Referendums aren’t really part of our political system, and they don’t fit into it neatly. The GBP voted to leave, but no one knows what form they want that leaving of Europe to take because they weren’t asked.

So there are essentially two options: firstly, you could hold another referendum on the proposed terms of Brexit. In theory this is the most democratic solution, but in practise it’s likely to be messy, and it’s unlikely the GBP has the stomach for another expensive and divisive referendum so soon.

But never fear: there is another solution. The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, and we elect MPs for just this job: to debate, alter and vote on decisions on our behalf.  But for some reason () Theresa May doesn’t want this to happen, and she’s prepared to go to the Supreme Court in order to deny our MPs their sovereign, constitutional rights! Not only that, but her mates in the Press (who told us all through the Referendum that one of the main reasons for leaving the EU was to restore UK sovereignty!) are for some reason helping her do so by creating a smokescreen by which anyone standing up for the rights of Parliament (and therefore some form of public scrutiny of the terms of Brexit) are accused of trying to “rob” the GBP of their Brexit, and condemned as “Enemies of the People”.  

So if Theresa gets her way next month, what we will have is a PM who hasn’t been put in that position by a public vote, wasn’t responsible for instigating the Brexit vote, and who actually campaigned to remain, will effectively have sole control over the terms by which we leave the EU: and no one else – whether they voted to leave or not – will have any say in the matter. And all the while, the "British" press are doing their best to ensure that the "Remainers" get the blame for it...

[/Rant]

Not bad Eugene. We've basically, independently, come up with the same thing. And we are ALL going to be shafted, whether we voted for or against Brexit!

Today I was dismayed to be told that we wouldn't stand in the way of Article 50 and would seek to negotiate how to leave.

I'm going to sleep on it but I'll probably resign tomorrow!

Garage Joe posted:

Today I was dismayed to be told that we wouldn't stand in the way of Article 50 and would seek to negotiate how to leave.

I'm going to sleep on it but I'll probably resign tomorrow!

And this surprises you GJ ? What is it they say about power?  I truly believe there  are no conviction politicians these days ....no matter what they say /promise .....it always changes when they get in power .....and too many MPs of all persuasions   scared for their jobs .... 

totally agree with Eugene on everything he says...it's not JC that's all in or nothing, it's career politicians like Tom Watson .

Not one person should be allowed to make such important decisions and especially the likes of May who is hopeless. 

This was the most stupidest idea ever, by a stupid government who couldn't even clarify what people were voting for.... and left an even more stupider person in charge of article 50 ...

Off topic but, hey…

I just heard an American NFL announcer describe an exposed quarter-back as being more alone than a high court judge at a UKIP meeting!

Cold Sweat posted:

Off topic but, hey…

 

I just heard an American NFL announcer describe an exposed quarter-back as being more alone than a high court judge at a UKIP meeting!

 

Rofl  

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

 

totally agree with Eugene on everything he says...it's not JC that's all in or nothing, it's career politicians like Tom Watson .

Not one person should be allowed to make such important decisions and especially the likes of May who is hopeless. 

This was the most stupidest idea ever, by a stupid government who couldn't even clarify what people were voting for.... and left an even more stupider person in charge of article 50 ...

Spot on.

The government has urged the Supreme Court to make a decision the "ordinary man and woman" would understand in the landmark legal challenge over Brexit.

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How absolutely condescending does that sound?

Us poor wee plebs with our limited intellect!

So it would appear!

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

The government has urged the Supreme Court to make a decision the "ordinary man and woman" would understand in the landmark legal challenge over Brexit.

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How absolutely condescending does that sound?

Us poor we plebs with our limited intellect!

Well tbf.. the fact that the 'ordinary man and woman' got us into this mess in the first place makes me think that in this instance they may have a point....

Kaffs posted:

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

The government has urged the Supreme Court to make a decision the "ordinary man and woman" would understand in the landmark legal challenge over Brexit.

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How absolutely condescending does that sound?

Us poor we plebs with our limited intellect!

Well tbf.. the fact that the 'ordinary man and woman' got us into this mess in the first place makes me think that in this instance they may have a point....

Go Kaffers!  

But the question here is not whether Brexit was right or wrong, but whether parliament should vote about the triggering of Article 50!

Xochi posted:

 

Well tbf.. the fact that the 'ordinary man and woman' got us into this mess in the first place makes me think that in this instance they may have a point....

Go Kaffers!  

Hello stranger!      Good to see you.

I guess (before I'm pounced on) I should say that, no, I don't believe everyone who voted remain is intellectually challenged - but I do think all those people who went blinking into the sunlight the day after the vote saying 'What?  but....but..but.. if I've know THAT I'd not have voted the way I did' tipped the vote for leave.

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

But the question here is not whether Brexit was right or wrong, but whether parliament should vote about the triggering of Article 50!

Yes, but the comment is about whether or not 100% of the GBP can understand things when it's not explained in words of one syllable.

velvet donkey posted:

No pouncing from me kaffs       

 

I know you'd punch my lights out    

yeah.. I'm right tough, me 

Sir Ivan Rogers - I wonder if he decided that bailing out was the most sensible option?

I think sometimes ones loyalty to the realm comes before ones loyalty to the party. 

Having said that there was no need for him to resign since we already knew that there was no plan. 

I don't want to keep harping on about it but which of your FMs predicted the current crisis of hegemony long before the vote? Hmm?

And they expect us to trust them whilst they stab each other in the back 

No wonder I don't vote - liars and schemers, the lot of 'em

I think you'll find he stabbed them in the front! 

Saint posted:

And they expect us to trust them whilst they stab each other in the back 

 

No wonder I don't vote - liars and schemers, the lot of 'em

Yes, but if you don't vote, you can't change it....vote for someone else if you're not sure 

The pound is still weak and I saw a report saying fuel prices could hit £1.27-£1.30 a litre by the end of the month, which has a knock on effect of putting up other prices.

Thanks Brexit. 

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:

 

The pound is still weak and I saw a report saying fuel prices could hit £1.27-£1.30 a litre by the end of the month, which has a knock on effect of putting up other prices.

 

Thanks Brexit. 

Where though? I think they are already that in some more rural areas!

Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing posted:

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:

 

The pound is still weak and I saw a report saying fuel prices could hit £1.27-£1.30 a litre by the end of the month, which has a knock on effect of putting up other prices.

 

Thanks Brexit. 

Where though? I think they are already that in some more rural areas!

Geographically they did not state, only that now OPEC have agreed to reduce production the price of a barrel is likely to climb. Obviously whether this happens only time will tell save any supermarché price wars.

Hand on heart, I sort of knew it was heading this way at the end of September if something did not change. 

I was told by a person who has worked closely with him, he was fantastic at his job and jumped through hoops to try and make things work, he was given an impossible task and nothing to work with...this resignation was no suprise to me!

Does that not show though, that no one in government has a clue?

Sprout posted:

Does that not show though, that no one in government has a clue?

I told you at the time that I knew things I couldn't disclose and this one one of them