Skip to main content

quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
I think it is a good idea to have compulsory vaccinations. I think we have the measles epidemic back now because people have refused to take up the measles jab on the miniscule chance that their child may become Autisic as result of having a combined vaccine.


thats true and the reason that the measles jab should be available on its own, its the fact that to many its mmr or nothing and some consider even if the risk is minuscule any child is too precious to risk.
B
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
I think it is a good idea to have compulsory vaccinations. I think we have the measles epidemic back now because people have refused to take up the measles jab on the miniscule chance that their child may become Autisic as result of having a combined vaccine.


thats true and the reason that the measles jab should be available on its own, its the fact that to many its mmr or nothing and some consider even if the risk is minuscule any child is too precious to risk.


Well, people are 'risking' their children by refusing the vaccine. Deafness and brain damage are just some of the horrors they are risking. But I agree there should be an option for single vaccinations. The point is, the child should be vaccinated to protect against potentially harmful viruses.
~Orchid~
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:

but that isnt what you said, you said inoculated or not.


Indeed I did. Read the article: the higher the proportion of inoculated children, the lower the risk of disease transference. Inoculation is never 100%: one jabbed kid in a class of 29 unvaccinated children might well contract the disease notwithstanding the inoculation
bigdaddyostrich
quote:
Originally posted by Yogi 19:

It is the compulsory element of this proposal which concerns me, Veggie. The suggestion that parents, who failed to comply, would be refused a place for their child at a state school, seems very wrong, to me.


I agree Yogi, but it is a fallacy that parents are given free choice in this. The amount of grief that they get if they refuse innoculations is immense, parents who refuse are almost hounded because of it. I have read a lot of reports and know from my own experience that this is so.

As regards school, a friend emigrated to Florida with her two kids and she had to run around before she went getting all their vaccination records because the rules in Florida are that kids must be immunised to get a school place.

I am deeply suspicious of the govt over the MMR thing - if their only objective is to ensure that the maximum numbers of children are vaccinated then why O why can they not offer 3 single jabs to the parents who prefer them. I really cannot see what the problem is with that solution
FM
quote:
Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
My children get all the injections they should. I have to declare my bias. A member my family is dead because of measiles in childhood. It is a killer.

The man who spread all the lies about the MMR will burn in hell. He did it for perosnal profit and has been discredited.


Disgusting. Shake Head
~Orchid~
quote:
* There has never been a programme of giving single vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella in the UK.
I'm not quite clear what you mean here. I had measles when I was 4, so wouldn't have needed a measles jab if one had been available. I've never had mumps nor been vaccinated against it. Nor have I ever had Rubella (is that not what used to be called German Measles?)but was vaccinated against German Measles during 3rd year at High School, it seemed to be a standard thing, although I don't think it was actually compulsory.
Extremely Fluffy Fluffy Thing
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
The Government are only introducing the 'compulsory' element because there has been little uptake of the injection where parents are given a choice.

Three single vaccines, I suspect, are ruled out because of cost.


Yeah hun but you have to ask, if there is a low takeup then why is this??
If parents are unhappy or suspicious of the MMR jab then really they should offer the single doses.
I would suspect that the main problem with cost is that the drug company supplying the jabs have swelled the coffers of the political party concerned.

I have friends whose child had a bad reaction at 3 months old to a whooping cough jab. The childrens ward at Harlow hospital was stuffed to the gills with other babies who were also ill because of that jab. Now it may have just been a faulty batch, or maybe the health visitors etc didn't store it right - who knows.
But that beautiful little boy was never right afterwards and was diagnosed at 2 years old as severely autistic. He is now 16 and will never have the chance of a normal life.
He is not the only one of those children who were in the hospital to be diagnosed with autism.
Coincidence - I don't think so.
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Veggieburger:
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
The Government are only introducing the 'compulsory' element because there has been little uptake of the injection where parents are given a choice.

Three single vaccines, I suspect, are ruled out because of cost.


Yeah hun but you have to ask, if there is a low takeup then why is this??
If parents are unhappy or suspicious of the MMR jab then really they should offer the single doses.
I would suspect that the main problem with cost is that the drug company supplying the jabs have swelled the coffers of the political party concerned.

I have friends whose child had a bad reaction at 3 months old to a whooping cough jab. The childrens ward at Harlow hospital was stuffed to the gills with other babies who were also ill because of that jab. Now it may have just been a faulty batch, or maybe the health visitors etc didn't store it right - who knows.
But that beautiful little boy was never right afterwards and was diagnosed at 2 years old as severely autistic. He is now 16 and will never have the chance of a normal life.
He is not the only one of those children who were in the hospital to be diagnosed with autism.
Coincidence - I don't think so.


Hi hun, Smiler I've already said that the government should offer single doses-read back. I just mentioned cost. Personally, I don't feel there is enough evidence to support the hypothesis that the 3in1 vaccine is an actual cause of Autism and the jab you mention in your friends tragic case was allegedly caused because of the whooping cough jab.
~Orchid~
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:

Hi hun, Smiler I've already said that the government should offer single doses-read back. I just mentioned cost. Personally, I don't feel there is enough evidence to support the hypothesis that the 3in1 vaccine is an actual cause of Autism and the jab you mention in your friends tragic case was allegedly caused because of the whooping cough jab.


Yeah I think this is the problem. My friends were told that he could have gone on to develop autism naturally so it's very difficult to prove one way or another.

I really think that a big problem is injecting these tiny babies. Personally I think they should wait until they are at least a year old and give their immune systems time to develop naturally before filling them with (allbeit watered down) diseases.
Plus it would be easier to see whether the child was developing naturally up to that point and may make proving a vaccine responsible for any autistic spectrum disorder easier.

There's no easy answers as a parent when making this decision though which I why I told my son and DIL to read about it from both sides and then make their own minds up about it.
FM
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance
Blizz'ard
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance


My relative had his MMR right in the middle of the scare stories. His mum was terrified but decided it was best in the long run. He is fine but there have been several of his friends who've not had the vaccine and now ill with mumps and measles. You are right Andrew Wakefield should be getting sued. He is a disgrace.
~Orchid~
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance
I agree.
The Singing Ringing Tree
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance


My relative had his MMR right in the middle of the scare stories. His mum was terrified but decided it was best in the long run. He is fine but there have been several of his friends who've not had the vaccine and now ill with mumps and measles. You are right Andrew Wakefield should be getting sued. He is a disgrace.


its still no reason to prevent parents who dont want the triple vaccination from getting singles just so it fills the coffers of one drug company, it doesnt even matter if the fears are unfounded or the risks minute, the risks of not having a vaccination are higher.
B
quote:
Originally posted by Big Brothers Big Scam:
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance


My relative had his MMR right in the middle of the scare stories. His mum was terrified but decided it was best in the long run. He is fine but there have been several of his friends who've not had the vaccine and now ill with mumps and measles. You are right Andrew Wakefield should be getting sued. He is a disgrace.


its still no reason to prevent parents who dont want the triple vaccination from getting singles just so it fills the coffers of one drug company, it doesnt even matter if the fears are unfounded or the risks minute, the risks of not having a vaccination are higher.


I've already said people should be offered the choice of triple or single vaccines because at least that way, more children would be vaccinated. Smiler
~Orchid~
my daughter's mmr was due right in the middle of the hoohaa so we decided to wait and see how things panned out. time went by and we never got round to it Blush but as soon as cases were reported in the north east we took her to get the first jab. she's a strapping healthy kid so i had no qualms about her getting it now.

we held back on all her vaccines for a little while, she was over 6 months whewn she had her first. i feel it's an awful lot for a tiny body to cope with.

i think single jabs, like i had at school for measles and rubella should be made available to give parents a choice before they start excluding kids from school.
electric shepherd
quote:
Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
My children get all the injections they should. I have to declare my bias. A member my family is dead because of measiles in childhood. It is a killer.

The man who spread all the lies about the MMR will burn in hell. He did it for perosnal profit and has been discredited.
He's now in Texas, dishing out phony advice to gullible celebs. It's a damned shame he wasn't prosecuted for the damage he did. On the BBC news there was a woman who didn't give her child the measles jab because of the fuss created. Her child caught the bug and is now partially deaf. She has to live with that because of him.
captain marbles
quote:
Originally posted by Demantoid:
I don't have kids, but I remember very well how it was normal to catch measles when I was little.
Nobody made a fuss about it, either. In fact, some parents used to deliberately send their kids round to play with someone with measles, mumps, chicken pox etc, so they could catch them and get it out of the way.


I remember it well!! However I will go along with MMR as long as it can be done in single doses!!!
Joyron
quote:
Originally posted by joyron:
quote:
Originally posted by Demantoid:
I don't have kids, but I remember very well how it was normal to catch measles when I was little.
Nobody made a fuss about it, either. In fact, some parents used to deliberately send their kids round to play with someone with measles, mumps, chicken pox etc, so they could catch them and get it out of the way.


I remember it well!! However I will go along with MMR as long as it can be done in single doses!!!


People did that with chicken pox, but I don't remember anyone thinking it was a good idea to catch measles or mumps. Confused

I do remember alot of worry about pregnant women coming into contact with Rubella and children dying or getting brain damage from measles.
Blizz'ard
quote:
Originally posted by Demantoid:
I don't have kids, but I remember very well how it was normal to catch measles when I was little.
Nobody made a fuss about it, either. In fact, some parents used to deliberately send their kids round to play with someone with measles, mumps, chicken pox etc, so they could catch them and get it out of the way.


Yep, i was reguarly sent round to other kids houses to play, to catch everything going as it was always said it was better to get it young.Half the time i just "carried" it and gave it to my brother Laugh
That seemed to be the way people dealth with it then. Wouldnt happen now would it.
G
quote:
Originally posted by The Singing Ringing Tree:
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance
I agree.



I'm completely with Tree and Blizzie on this. Wakefield did a flawed study that was biased from the start.

The whole point of immunization is to protect the children that cannot have the immunizations,such as kids with cancer, leukaemia and other life threatening conditions that prevent them being immunized.
All 3 of my kids were immunized on schedule and I never had a second thought about it.I couldn't bear the thought of someone's child dying because of my decision not to vaccinate my kids.
ED
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance



Nod
MeJane
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
quote:
Originally posted by Demantoid:
I don't have kids, but I remember very well how it was normal to catch measles when I was little.
Nobody made a fuss about it, either. In fact, some parents used to deliberately send their kids round to play with someone with measles, mumps, chicken pox etc, so they could catch them and get it out of the way.


surely better not to have to have the nasty things at all?

Some key facts about the diseases and the MMR vaccine:

* The MMR programme started in Britain in 1988. By this time, children in the United States had been having the MMR vaccine for over 15 years with no safety problems.
* Worldwide, more than 500 million doses of the MMR vaccine have been given in over 100 countries.
* The World Health Organization says about the MMR vaccine, 'its safety record is exemplary'.
* In the year before the vaccine was introduced in the UK, 86,000 children caught measles and 16 died.
* Because of the MMR vaccine, no child has died from acute measles in the UK since 1992.
* Before the vaccine was introduced, mumps was the commonest cause of viral meningitis in children.
* Because of the MMR vaccine, we are now close to wiping out mumps in children.
* Before the MMR vaccine was introduced, rubella continued to cause terrible damage to some unborn babies.
* Because of the MMR vaccine, we are now close to wiping out rubella.
* There has never been a programme of giving single vaccines against measles, mumps and rubella in the UK.


Measles is a pretty evil illnes.
TBF we all think of childhood illnesses as just that.A rite of passage.Chickenpox is probably the only remaining common one left,so our recollections of what measles was like is down to our memories as a 5 year old.
Measles isnt like chickenpox.Its nasty.I had it as a kid and it wrecked my immune system for about six months as I got various complications.
My son caught it before his vaccinations and he was then prone to everything under the sun including bronchiolitis(which mercifully shortlived still frightened the shit out of me).I'd urge anyone to vaccinate their kids.But Am not sure about making it compulsory tbh
M
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
It's not complicated. There is no link betwen MMR and autism. Simple.

The only decision is whether to immunise your kids against a bunch of nasty diseases, or not.

Clapping Clapping

There is an increased acceptance that up to 1 in 30 children have some kind of autistic spectrum condition.But its more to do with awareness of the condition than any causal links with the MMR jab
M
quote:
Originally posted by Veggieburger:
quote:
Originally posted by ~Orchid~:
The Government are only introducing the 'compulsory' element because there has been little uptake of the injection where parents are given a choice.

Three single vaccines, I suspect, are ruled out because of cost.


Yeah hun but you have to ask, if there is a low takeup then why is this??
If parents are unhappy or suspicious of the MMR jab then really they should offer the single doses.
I would suspect that the main problem with cost is that the drug company supplying the jabs have swelled the coffers of the political party concerned.

I have friends whose child had a bad reaction at 3 months old to a whooping cough jab. The childrens ward at Harlow hospital was stuffed to the gills with other babies who were also ill because of that jab. Now it may have just been a faulty batch, or maybe the health visitors etc didn't store it right - who knows.
But that beautiful little boy was never right afterwards and was diagnosed at 2 years old as severely autistic. He is now 16 and will never have the chance of a normal life.
He is not the only one of those children who were in the hospital to be diagnosed with autism.
Coincidence - I don't think so.


Hi Veggie.

I think we're now more aware how common autistic spectrum conditions are .Perhaps down to inclusive drives in school.As teachers become more and more aware of autism ,think we're realising the slightly odd child we knew was actually displaying ASC tendencies.We even see traits in adult folk around us.I think its increasingly recognised now and it is coincidental Smiler
M
I would urge everyone with children to vaccinate.

I have five sons - all a year apart in age - and ALL were vaccinated. My middle son, despite the vaccinations, contracted measles!!

The fact that he had been vaccinated ensured that I didn't lose him, but he has only 10% vision in one eye.

Had he not had the vaccine, I would have lost him.
ANNOCA
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
It's not complicated. There is no link betwen MMR and autism. Simple.

The only decision is whether to immunise your kids against a bunch of nasty diseases, or not.



Very true but now it seems that if you refuse your kids wont be able to attend school. That's not really much of a choice is it?
Soozy Woo
quote:
Originally posted by Soozy woo:
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
It's not complicated. There is no link betwen MMR and autism. Simple.

The only decision is whether to immunise your kids against a bunch of nasty diseases, or not.



Very true but now it seems that if you refuse your kids wont be able to attend school. That's not really much of a choice is it?


Yeah, but is it fair on those kids who can't have the vaccinations to be put at risk, just because some stupid doctor wanted to make some more money?
Blizz'ard
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
quote:
Originally posted by Soozy woo:
quote:
Originally posted by Bigdaddyostrich:
It's not complicated. There is no link betwen MMR and autism. Simple.

The only decision is whether to immunise your kids against a bunch of nasty diseases, or not.



Very true but now it seems that if you refuse your kids wont be able to attend school. That's not really much of a choice is it?


Yeah, but is it fair on those kids who can't have the vaccinations to be put at risk, just because some stupid doctor wanted to make some more money?



But the MMR is free isn't it? or have I missed something here? as far as I'm aware if you're child is prone to convulsions or has extreme allergies they are exempt from routine MMr and could be offered the vaccines separately.

In all honesty I do think it extreme to ban kids from school simply because theyhaven't had the MMR but ................it is important to eradicate diseases if at all possible and mass immunisation is the way to go ...................the only way in fact.

So many parents now think so long and hard about it ..............that's their perogative but ........these illnesses in themselves are probably more life threatening than the immunisation ................it really wouldn't be good to see measles take hold - or mumps/whooping cough for that matter.
Soozy Woo
quote:
Originally posted by Soozy woo:

But the MMR is free isn't it? or have I missed something here? as far as I'm aware if you're child is prone to convulsions or has extreme allergies they are exempt from routine MMr and could be offered the vaccines separately.

In all honesty I do think it extreme to ban kids from school simply because theyhaven't had the MMR but ................it is important to eradicate diseases if at all possible and mass immunisation is the way to go ...................the only way in fact.

So many parents now think so long and hard about it ..............that's their perogative but ........these illnesses in themselves are probably more life threatening than the immunisation ................it really wouldn't be good to see measles take hold - or mumps/whooping cough for that matter.


I meant Andrew Wakefield, who was hoping to make money with his own treatment, by discrediting the MMR.

And some kids cannot have the vaccines for medical reasons, or have a suppressed immune system, so are left vulnerable.
Blizz'ard
quote:
Originally posted by Blizzie:
It's not just about cost. The combined vaccine had proved more effective. Parents do forget, or can't be bothered, to go back for more vaccinations and some children, who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, are left vulnerable because of scare stories, started by money grabbing tossers and whipped up by an hysterical media.

I had no problem in deciding on the MMR vaccine. Andrew Wakefield is a disgrace. Glance


I have a son with Autism, all of this stuff came out just as I had had him diagnosed and having just had his MMR. When the time came for the next jab we worried ourselves sick over whether to have him immunised again. We decided to have him done because at the end of the day I would rather have him with me with Autism then dead from measles. I know this sounds extreme but it was the only way we could make the decision. Wakefield has a lot to answer for.
Mentalist
Whilst I think that all children should be vaccinated unless there are very good reasons for not having the MMR, I would never support compulsory vaccination. It think it has to be the choice of individual parents, with enough information to make an informed decision.

The debate on MMR really started just after I'd had my daughter vaccinated, but if I had to make the decision now, I would want her to have the three separate vaccinations, and wouldn't consider the combined MMR.

I don't quite see how compulsory vaccination could work. If you refuse to vaccinate your child, you could be refused a state school place, but parents must have their children educated by law. There will always be a very small number of parents who choose to home educate their children, but will this be the only route open to parents who refuse to let their children be innoculated?
FM
quote:
Originally posted by Growlybear:
Whilst I think that all children should be vaccinated unless there are very good reasons for not having the MMR, I would never support compulsory vaccination. It think it has to be the choice of individual parents, with enough information to make an informed decision.

The debate on MMR really started just after I'd had my daughter vaccinated, but if I had to make the decision now, I would want her to have the three separate vaccinations, and wouldn't consider the combined MMR.

I don't quite see how compulsory vaccination could work. If you refuse to vaccinate your child, you could be refused a state school place, but parents must have their children educated by law. There will always be a very small number of parents who choose to home educate their children, but will this be the only route open to parents who refuse to let their children be innoculated?



well you made the right choice as the single vacines are not as safe as the mmr,which is again information that is out there but not reported properly.I had measles when young it is a killer and i had the single vacine thats when i go it.my advive to all parents get informed from experts not sun reporters.
roland rat
quote:
Originally posted by roland rat:
quote:
Originally posted by Growlybear:
Whilst I think that all children should be vaccinated unless there are very good reasons for not having the MMR, I would never support compulsory vaccination. It think it has to be the choice of individual parents, with enough information to make an informed decision.

The debate on MMR really started just after I'd had my daughter vaccinated, but if I had to make the decision now, I would want her to have the three separate vaccinations, and wouldn't consider the combined MMR.

I don't quite see how compulsory vaccination could work. If you refuse to vaccinate your child, you could be refused a state school place, but parents must have their children educated by law. There will always be a very small number of parents who choose to home educate their children, but will this be the only route open to parents who refuse to let their children be innoculated?



well you made the right choice as the single vacines are not as safe as the mmr,which is again information that is out there but not reported properly.I had measles when young it is a killer and i had the single vacine thats when i go it.my advive to all parents get informed from experts not sun reporters.
There is a wealth of information available to parents now, and I doubt that any parent would base a decision which could potentially affect their child's health on comments they read in a newspaper such as the Sun!

As you found, it is still possible to contract illnesses even when you have been vaccinated. And as you say, measles is a killer - fortunately you had the single vaccine, otherwise you could have been one of the fatalities.
FM
quote:
There is a wealth of information available to parents now, and I doubt that any parent would base a decision which could potentially affect their child's health on comments they read in a newspaper such as the Sun!


You wouldn't and I wouldn't but there are plenty of thickos that would!

Incidentally my last child did not have the MMR at the appointed time but much later....with each innoculation before at 2,3 and 4 months he had a week of diarrhoea after and was quite poorly so I opted to wait...the fact he also had chickenpox when he was due the jab was another factor.
Croctacus

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×