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tory manifesto sounds like someone who is married to the mob
Tory bastards are going to cut free school dinners except to the poorest kids.Wonder what their criteria of poverty will be.Once again wallop the poorest, I hate them.
A couple of points from the Tory manifesto that - for some reason - aren't exactly making the front pages at the moment:
- Second part of the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press will not take place.
- Repeal section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2014, which would - if enacted - force newspapers to pay their opponents' legal costs linked to libel and privacy actions, even if they win in court, if they are not signed up to an officially-recognised regulator.
Makes you wonder why so much of the press is praising May to the rafters at the moment, doesn't it? 
i reckon she wants to lose..let corbyn sort out the brexit mess..and she thinks she can say i told you so..but i reckon corbyn will do ok cos he's not an egomaniac
Tweezer won't debate, her questions to the press are vetted and refusing to let Sky news in on her manifesto launch was really weird. I have no time for the likes of Turdoch, but for them to say that the Labour manifesto costing were correct and no black hole seems to have left a sour taste in her extremely sour mouth.
You're quite right Eugine, I am convinced she feels she doesn't have to explain anything because all of the press are now spinning Tory propaganda. I'm sure dirty little deals were done before the snap election was called and she's put that Levinson promise on the table. The BBC is now the powerhouse churning lie machine of the Tory government. I couldn't watch it before, now I'm truly disgusted at the blatant lies being broadcast from what was once a great institution. 
There is no costings to the tories manifesto, no idea how many people the death tax is going to hit, how many children are going to be deprived from free school meals. The press are not questioning the tories about it and you know darn well with the tories if it's bad news eventually that bad news will be terrible news.
I'm astounded anyone wants to vote for them, let alone does.
in simple terms...the dementia tax
Dame_Ann_Average posted:in simple terms...the dementia tax
Adam Hills has just pointed out on "The Last Leg" that May is so staggeringly confident of winning that she's announced this in Dementia Awareness Week! 
Eugene's Lair posted:Adam Hills has just pointed out on "The Last Leg" that May is so staggeringly confident of winning that she's announced this in Dementia Awareness Week!
I know this Eugene, my brother is in a care home with premature Alzheimer's that started in is early 50, Two years ago his wife had to put him into care because she could no longer cope so this will hit her massively if this policy goes through. There are posters up in the care home about Dementia week, it just shows the level of the Tory party to be honest.
I am sick to death of hearing the press, people, tory politicians saying they don't want to go back to the 1970's...I don't want to go back to the 1870's and that's where we are heading. no health care, food banks, homelessness, no welfare state, no work contracts, pittance for wages for the working class, malnutrition, scabies and scurvy on the rise, ...and they have the audacity to say labour is taking us back 40 years when they are taken us back 150 years. 
As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this 
It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit . As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc.
There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......
I don't want to enter into any political arguments, but ... the average nursing care fees are ÂĢ39,300
My father in law pays ÂĢ63,960.
Rexi posted:I don't want to enter into any political arguments, but ... the average nursing care fees are ÂĢ39,300
My father in law pays ÂĢ63,960.
Yes, we've been through that recently with Mr Bs uncle, Rexi ....his was about ÂĢ37k a year from his own money ....topped up by about another ÂĢ6k a year from the the social . But that's not really governments ( of any colours) fault , it's because that's what private sector homes charge ....and I'm not sure how we get round that .
If the government caps the price they can charge then I'm guessing many homes would close .....or if the government takes them all over ....effectively nationalises them .....then how do they pay for it.....the public finances aren't unlimited 
I wasn't talking about people on here Baz, I was talking in general and from my own personal experience on social media and in my own area and it's the same from Tory voters. Sorry for the long reply, but I have tried to address everything even though I know we're never going to agree 
Labour under Blair did nothing to rein in the banks, that's true. However, if we are going to hark back to previous governmental mistakes on why the crash raised our deficit so much, we can go back to Thatcher who started the deregulation of banks process in the UK in the attempt to create a London based financial services economy. In the mid to late 2000's the oil prices started to rise, mortgages defaulted in the USA , where institutions had been lending money willy nilly for houses that should never been mortgaged. Then the came the collapse of the Lehman Brothers Bank and boom. This led to a GLOBAL crash and was not caused by Labour. They just happened to be in government at the time and had it been the Tories, it would have affected them the same way. We were never close to being bankrupt. In fact the deficit was slightly coming down before the coalition in 2010 as the green-shoots of recovery had already started. That is until George Osborne then decided we needed austerity to pay back the deficit. What were his favourite slogans - Paying the deficit down, or We're the Comeback Country etc. The deficit then was ÂĢ800 BN approx, half of what it is now under 7 years of austerity. We have had massive cuts to the poorest, stagnant wages for the lowest paid, A&E centres closed, libraries closed, Care in the Community budgets slashed and where have those savings gone...tax breaks to the rich and not a penny paid off the deficit, in fact it may reach triple by the time we hit the 2020's. Official figures now put it at ÂĢ1.73 TN and rising. Remember, it serves the government well to keep the need for austerity going because they feel they can use it to justify taking so much from the low paid and unwaged (sick and disabled) to give in tax breaks to the rich. Germany and other European countries baulked at the UK austerity measures, they now have healthier economies than we do, with properly salaried jobs that pay substantially more than we do in wages. Only Greece fairs worse than us and that's telling.
This is a statement from the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative think tank.
"These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.
It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lions share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."
Like any equity release scheme (and that's what this scheme is) we are not told what the administration costs are to be. I'm imagining the government won't run it themselves, they'll as per usual outsource it to a private concern who let's face it won't do it for free. Is it an annual fee or one off? What rate will it be? Will these costs to administer it be taken out of the amount over ÂĢ100K or will it come out of the ÂĢ100K? We don't know because the Tories may have costed it, but they aren't telling us. Therefore, people should be worried there will be another sting in the tail and a scandal similar to PPI and the current equity release schemes.
Labours manifesto is fully costed, and the majority of analysts and economists agree it's been costed properly so why not have the richest 5% pay a little bit more? Very few of us will be able like Hugh Grosvenor, Duke of Westminster, to put what little we have in to tax avoiding trusts to avoid paying the 40% levy that is standard when passing on houses or money as an inheritance. He managed to protect his ÂĢ9 BN fortune yet Joe/Josephine Bloggs on the street will be hit twice! Once by paying NI contributions all their working life and then again when the government comes for your home. It's not huge amounts that the top 5% are being asked to pay and cannot even compare to the cuts the poor have had to put up with. I believe that most of Labour policies will be put in place because we need desperately to reverse the widening gap. No one is expecting changes overnight, but rather than let the massive equality gap grow any further, why not try and reverse it for a fairer society. As for the Tory manifesto, no costings, no figures, no debating...it's not a manifesto, just 60 pledges with nothing to back it up. Yet they were the loudest in shouting for Labour to cost their manifesto. How can we compare to see which is the most workable if we don't have all the facts?
I'm not ignoring the 70's, I'll also never forget Thatcher either or the last 7 years and I hated Tony Blair and still do, swings and roundabouts Baz
Baz posted:As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this
It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit . As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc.
There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......
You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.
Dame_Ann_Average posted:
I wasn't talking about people on here Baz, I was talking in general and from my own personal experience on social media and in my own area and it's the same from Tory voters. Sorry for the long reply, but I have tried to address everything even though I know we're never going to agree
Labour under Blair did nothing to rein in the banks, that's true. However, if we are going to hark back to previous governmental mistakes on why the crash raised our deficit so much, we can go back to Thatcher who started the deregulation of banks process in the UK in the attempt to create a London based financial services economy. In the mid to late 2000's the oil prices started to rise, mortgages defaulted in the USA , where institutions had been lending money willy nilly for houses that should never been mortgaged. Then the came the collapse of the Lehman Brothers Bank and boom. This led to a GLOBAL crash and was not caused by Labour. They just happened to be in government at the time and had it been the Tories, it would have affected them the same way. We were never close to being bankrupt. In fact the deficit was slightly coming down before the coalition in 2010 as the green-shoots of recovery had already started. That is until George Osborne then decided we needed austerity to pay back the deficit. What were his favourite slogans - Paying the deficit down, or We're the Comeback Country etc. The deficit then was ÂĢ800 BN approx, half of what it is now under 7 years of austerity. We have had massive cuts to the poorest, stagnant wages for the lowest paid, A&E centres closed, libraries closed, Care in the Community budgets slashed and where have those savings gone...tax breaks to the rich and not a penny paid off the deficit, in fact it may reach triple by the time we hit the 2020's. Official figures now put it at ÂĢ1.73 TN and rising. Remember, it serves the government well to keep the need for austerity going because they feel they can use it to justify taking so much from the low paid and unwaged (sick and disabled) to give in tax breaks to the rich. Germany and other European countries baulked at the UK austerity measures, they now have healthier economies than we do, with properly salaried jobs that pay substantially more than we do in wages. Only Greece fairs worse than us and that's telling.
This is a statement from the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative think tank.
"These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.
It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lions share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."
Like any equity release scheme (and that's what this scheme is) we are not told what the administration costs are to be. I'm imagining the government won't run it themselves, they'll as per usual outsource it to a private concern who let's face it won't do it for free. Is it an annual fee or one off? What rate will it be? Will these costs to administer it be taken out of the amount over ÂĢ100K or will it come out of the ÂĢ100K? We don't know because the Tories may have costed it, but they aren't telling us. Therefore, people should be worried there will be another sting in the tail and a scandal similar to PPI and the current equity release schemes.
Labours manifesto is fully costed, and the majority of analysts and economists agree it's been costed properly so why not have the richest 5% pay a little bit more? Very few of us will be able like Hugh Grosvenor, Duke of Westminster, to put what little we have in to tax avoiding trusts to avoid paying the 40% levy that is standard when passing on houses or money as an inheritance. He managed to protect his ÂĢ9 BN fortune yet Joe/Josephine Bloggs on the street will be hit twice! Once by paying NI contributions all their working life and then again when the government comes for your home. It's not huge amounts that the top 5% are being asked to pay and cannot even compare to the cuts the poor have had to put up with. I believe that most of Labour policies will be put in place because we need desperately to reverse the widening gap. No one is expecting changes overnight, but rather than let the massive equality gap grow any further, why not try and reverse it for a fairer society. As for the Tory manifesto, no costings, no figures, no debating...it's not a manifesto, just 60 pledges with nothing to back it up. Yet they were the loudest in shouting for Labour to cost their manifesto. How can we compare to see which is the most workable if we don't have all the facts?
I'm not ignoring the 70's, I'll also never forget Thatcher either or the last 7 years and I hated Tony Blair and still do, swings and roundabouts Baz
On that at least we do agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion
As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that's human nature and can't be avoided .....moreover the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here ...... I am a total cynic when it comes to politics ......because my own individual history has taught me that no matter what party is in power I get screwed ....it just depends to what degree
Yogi19 posted:Baz posted:As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this
It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit . As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc.
There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......
Thanks Yogi....it's nice not to be totally alone
Baz posted:On that at least we do agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion
As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that human nature and can't be avoided .....moreocer the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here
yayyyyyy common ground
maybe it's whatever affects us the most and what area you live in, but I can't for the life of me understand anyone here wanting or even contemplating voting Tory but they do. I'm quite a passionate socialist, not a commie or trot or any other thing..just a socialist and I care about others that are far worse off than me and in this area it's difficult to avoid
Dame_Ann_Average posted:Baz posted:On that at least we do agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion
As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that human nature and can't be avoided .....moreocer the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here
yayyyyyy common ground
maybe it's whatever affects us the most and what area you live in, but I can't for the life of me understand anyone here wanting or even contemplating voting Tory but they do. I'm quite a passionate socialist, not a commie or trot or any other thing..just a socialist and I care about others that are far worse off than me and in this area it's difficult to avoid
And I respect your views Dame ....and your passion......although the fact that I ...or others ...vote Tory , or Liberal etc ....doesn't necessarily mean that I/they don't care about people worse off than ourselves ....it means that rightly ....or wrongly ....we just see different ways a sorting it