TORY MANIFESTO

A couple of points from the Tory manifesto that - for some reason - aren't exactly making the front pages at the moment:

  • Second part of the Leveson Inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press will not take place.
  • Repeal section 40 of the Crime and Courts Act 2014, which would - if enacted - force newspapers to pay their opponents' legal costs linked to libel and privacy actions, even if they win in court, if they are not signed up to an officially-recognised regulator.

 

Makes you wonder why so much of the press is praising May to the rafters at the moment, doesn't it?

 

Tweezer won't debate, her questions to the press are vetted and refusing to let Sky news in on her manifesto launch was really weird. I have no time for the likes of Turdoch, but for them to say that the Labour manifesto costing were correct and no black hole seems to have left a sour taste in her extremely sour mouth. 

 

You're quite right Eugine, I am convinced she feels she doesn't have to explain anything because all of the press are now spinning Tory propaganda. I'm sure dirty little deals were done before the snap election was called and she's put that Levinson promise on the table. The BBC is now the powerhouse churning lie machine of the Tory government. I couldn't watch it before, now I'm truly disgusted at the blatant lies being broadcast from what was once a great institution. 

 

There is no costings to the tories manifesto, no idea how many people the death tax is going to hit, how many children are going to be deprived from free school meals. The press are not questioning the tories about it and you know darn well with the tories if it's bad news eventually that bad news will be terrible news.

I'm astounded anyone wants to vote for them, let alone does.

Eugene's Lair posted:

Adam Hills has just pointed out on "The Last Leg" that May is so staggeringly confident of winning that she's announced this in Dementia Awareness Week!  

 

I know this Eugene, my brother is in a care home with premature Alzheimer's that started in is early 50, Two years ago his wife had to put him into care because she could no longer cope so this will hit her massively if this policy goes through. There are posters up in the care home about Dementia week, it just shows the level of the Tory party to be honest.

 

I am sick to death of hearing the press, people, tory politicians saying they don't want to go back to the 1970's...I don't want to go back to the 1870's and that's where we are heading. no health care, food banks, homelessness, no welfare state, no work contracts, pittance for wages for the working class, malnutrition, scabies and scurvy on the rise, ...and they have the audacity to say labour is taking us back 40 years when they are taken us back 150 years. 

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

Rexi posted:

I don't want to enter into any political arguments, but ... the average nursing care fees are £39,300

 

My father in law pays  £63,960.

 

 

Yes, we've been through that recently with Mr Bs uncle, Rexi  ....his was about £37k a year  from his own money ....topped up by about another £6k a year from the the social . But that's not really governments ( of any colours) fault , it's  because that's what private sector homes charge ....and I'm not sure how we get round that .

 

If the government  caps the price they can charge then I'm guessing  many homes would close .....or if the government takes them all over ....effectively nationalises them .....then how do they pay for it.....the public finances aren't unlimited 

 

I wasn't talking about people on here Baz, I was talking in general and from my own personal experience on social media and in my own area and it's the same from Tory voters. Sorry for the long reply, but I have tried to address everything even though I know  we're never going to agree 

 

Labour under Blair did nothing to rein in the banks, that's true.  However, if we are going to hark back to previous governmental mistakes on why the crash raised our deficit so much, we can go back to Thatcher who started the deregulation of banks process in the UK in the attempt to create a London based financial services economy. In the mid to late 2000's the oil prices started to rise, mortgages defaulted in the USA , where institutions had been lending money willy nilly for houses that should never been mortgaged. Then the came the collapse of the Lehman Brothers Bank and boom. This led to a GLOBAL crash and was not caused by Labour.  They just happened to be in government at the time and had it been the Tories, it would have affected them the same way.  We were never close to being bankrupt.  In fact the deficit was slightly coming down before the coalition in 2010 as the green-shoots of recovery had already started. That is until George Osborne then decided we needed austerity to pay back the deficit.  What were his favourite slogans -  Paying the deficit down, or  We're the Comeback Country etc.  The deficit then was £800 BN approx, half of what it is now under 7 years of austerity.  We have had massive cuts to the poorest, stagnant wages for the lowest paid, A&E centres closed, libraries closed, Care in the Community budgets slashed and where have those savings gone...tax breaks to the rich and not a penny paid off the deficit, in fact it may reach triple by the time we hit the 2020's.  Official figures now put it at £1.73 TN and rising.  Remember, it serves the government well to keep the need for austerity going because they feel they can use it to justify taking so much from the low paid and unwaged (sick and disabled) to give in tax breaks to the rich.  Germany and other European countries baulked at the UK austerity measures, they now have healthier economies than we do, with properly salaried jobs that pay substantially more than we do in wages.  Only Greece fairs worse than us and that's telling.

This is a statement from the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative think tank.


"These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.


It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lions share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."

 

Like any equity release scheme (and that's what this scheme is) we are not told what the administration costs are to be.  I'm imagining the government won't run it themselves, they'll as per usual outsource it to a private concern who let's face it won't do it for free.  Is it an annual fee or one off?  What rate will it be? Will these costs to administer it be taken out of the amount over £100K or will it come out of the £100K?  We don't know because the Tories may have costed it, but they aren't telling us.  Therefore, people should be worried there will be another sting in the tail and a scandal similar to PPI and the current equity release schemes.  

Labours manifesto is fully costed,  and the majority of analysts and economists agree it's been costed properly so why not have the richest 5% pay a little bit more?  Very few of us will be able like Hugh Grosvenor, Duke of Westminster, to put what little we have in to tax avoiding trusts to avoid paying the 40% levy that is standard when passing on houses or money as an inheritance.  He managed to protect his £9 BN fortune yet Joe/Josephine Bloggs on the street will be hit twice!  Once by paying NI contributions all their working life and then again when the government comes for your home.  It's not huge amounts  that the top 5% are being asked to pay and cannot even compare to the cuts the poor have had to put up with.  I believe that most of Labour policies will be put in place because we need desperately to reverse the widening gap.  No one is expecting changes overnight,  but rather than let the massive equality gap grow any further, why not try and reverse it for a fairer society.  As for the Tory manifesto, no costings, no figures, no debating...it's not a manifesto, just 60 pledges with nothing to back it up.  Yet they were the loudest in shouting for Labour to cost their manifesto.  How can we compare to see which is the most workable if we don't have all the facts?  

I'm not ignoring the 70's, I'll also never forget Thatcher either or the last 7 years and I hated Tony Blair and still do,  swings and roundabouts Baz 

Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

 You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

 

I wasn't talking about people on here Baz, I was talking in general and from my own personal experience on social media and in my own area and it's the same from Tory voters. Sorry for the long reply, but I have tried to address everything even though I know  we're never going to agree 

 

Labour under Blair did nothing to rein in the banks, that's true.  However, if we are going to hark back to previous governmental mistakes on why the crash raised our deficit so much, we can go back to Thatcher who started the deregulation of banks process in the UK in the attempt to create a London based financial services economy. In the mid to late 2000's the oil prices started to rise, mortgages defaulted in the USA , where institutions had been lending money willy nilly for houses that should never been mortgaged. Then the came the collapse of the Lehman Brothers Bank and boom. This led to a GLOBAL crash and was not caused by Labour.  They just happened to be in government at the time and had it been the Tories, it would have affected them the same way.  We were never close to being bankrupt.  In fact the deficit was slightly coming down before the coalition in 2010 as the green-shoots of recovery had already started. That is until George Osborne then decided we needed austerity to pay back the deficit.  What were his favourite slogans -  Paying the deficit down, or  We're the Comeback Country etc.  The deficit then was £800 BN approx, half of what it is now under 7 years of austerity.  We have had massive cuts to the poorest, stagnant wages for the lowest paid, A&E centres closed, libraries closed, Care in the Community budgets slashed and where have those savings gone...tax breaks to the rich and not a penny paid off the deficit, in fact it may reach triple by the time we hit the 2020's.  Official figures now put it at £1.73 TN and rising.  Remember, it serves the government well to keep the need for austerity going because they feel they can use it to justify taking so much from the low paid and unwaged (sick and disabled) to give in tax breaks to the rich.  Germany and other European countries baulked at the UK austerity measures, they now have healthier economies than we do, with properly salaried jobs that pay substantially more than we do in wages.  Only Greece fairs worse than us and that's telling.

This is a statement from the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative think tank.


"These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.


It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lions share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative Party will experience a dramatic loss of support."

 

Like any equity release scheme (and that's what this scheme is) we are not told what the administration costs are to be.  I'm imagining the government won't run it themselves, they'll as per usual outsource it to a private concern who let's face it won't do it for free.  Is it an annual fee or one off?  What rate will it be? Will these costs to administer it be taken out of the amount over £100K or will it come out of the £100K?  We don't know because the Tories may have costed it, but they aren't telling us.  Therefore, people should be worried there will be another sting in the tail and a scandal similar to PPI and the current equity release schemes.  

Labours manifesto is fully costed,  and the majority of analysts and economists agree it's been costed properly so why not have the richest 5% pay a little bit more?  Very few of us will be able like Hugh Grosvenor, Duke of Westminster, to put what little we have in to tax avoiding trusts to avoid paying the 40% levy that is standard when passing on houses or money as an inheritance.  He managed to protect his £9 BN fortune yet Joe/Josephine Bloggs on the street will be hit twice!  Once by paying NI contributions all their working life and then again when the government comes for your home.  It's not huge amounts  that the top 5% are being asked to pay and cannot even compare to the cuts the poor have had to put up with.  I believe that most of Labour policies will be put in place because we need desperately to reverse the widening gap.  No one is expecting changes overnight,  but rather than let the massive equality gap grow any further, why not try and reverse it for a fairer society.  As for the Tory manifesto, no costings, no figures, no debating...it's not a manifesto, just 60 pledges with nothing to back it up.  Yet they were the loudest in shouting for Labour to cost their manifesto.  How can we compare to see which is the most workable if we don't have all the facts?  

I'm not ignoring the 70's, I'll also never forget Thatcher either or the last 7 years and I hated Tony Blair and still do,  swings and roundabouts Baz 

On that at least  we do  agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion   

 

As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is  on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that's human nature and can't be avoided .....moreover the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here ...... I am a total cynic when it comes to politics ......because my own individual history has taught me that no matter what party is in power I get screwed ....it just depends to what degree  

Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

 You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.

 Thanks Yogi....it's nice not to be totally alone 

Baz posted:

On that at least  we do  agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion   

 

As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is  on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that human nature and can't be avoided .....moreocer the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here ...... I am a total cynic when it comes to politics ......because my own personal history has taught me that no matter what party is in power I get screwed ....it just depends to what degree  

 

 

yayyyyyy common ground 

 

maybe it's whatever affects us the most and what area you live in, but I can't for the life of me understand anyone here wanting or even contemplating voting Tory but they do. I'm quite a passionate socialist, not a commie or trot or any other thing..just a socialist and I care about others that are far worse off than me and in this area it's difficult to avoid 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Baz posted:

On that at least  we do  agree....I detested them both equally ...and with a passion   

 

As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is  on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that human nature and can't be avoided .....moreocer the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here ...... I am a total cynic when it comes to politics ......because my own personal history has taught me that no matter what party is in power I get screwed ....it just depends to what degree  

 

 

yayyyyyy common ground 

 

maybe it's whatever affects us the most and what area you live in, but I can't for the life of me understand anyone here wanting or even contemplating voting Tory but they do. I'm quite a passionate socialist, not a commie or trot or any other thing..just a socialist and I care about others that are far worse off than me and in this area it's difficult to avoid 

 And I respect your views Dame ....and your passion......although the fact that I ...or others ...vote Tory , or Liberal etc ....doesn't necessarily mean that I/they don't care about people worse off than ourselves ....it means that rightly ....or wrongly ....we just see different ways a sorting it  

Baz posted:

 And I respect your views Dame ....and your passion......although the fact that I ...or others ...vote Tory , or Liberal etc ....doesn't necessarily mean that I/they don't care about people worse off than ourselves ....it means that rightly ....or wrongly ....we just see different ways a sorting it  

The problem is they aren't sorting it Baz, they are making things unbearable for those at the bottom. Those people aren't living, they are existing on £7 odd an hour and some not even getting two hours a day work on zero hours contracts...they have sorted nothing, not one thing. 

Sprout posted:

But at the moment Baz, this government isn't sorting it. They're robbing from the poor to give to the rich  

But I was listening  to a Labour spokesman today and they are already backtracking ....every question about the manifesto seemed to met with ..."it's simply a proposal"..."there will have to be a review" ........so do you really think it will be much different Sprout ? 

Baz posted:
Sprout posted:

But at the moment Baz, this government isn't sorting it. They're robbing from the poor to give to the rich  

But I was listening  to a Labour spokesman today and they are already backtracking ....every question about the manifesto seemed to met with ..."it's simply a proposal"..."there will have to be a review" ........so do you really think it will be much different Sprout ? 

It'll be fairer   

Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Baz posted:

 And I respect your views Dame ....and your passion......although the fact that I ...or others ...vote Tory , or Liberal etc ....doesn't necessarily mean that I/they don't care about people worse off than ourselves ....it means that rightly ....or wrongly ....we just see different ways a sorting it  

The problem is they aren't sorting it Baz, they are making things unbearable for those at the bottom. Those people aren't living, they are existing on £7 odd an hour and some not even getting two hours a day work on zero hours contracts...they have sorted nothing, not one thing. 

Well I can't fight the whole forum on masse ....so I think I will bow out now  TBH I can't really lose ....if the Tories get in my party will have won ....if Labour gets in then apparently I will be living in the land of milk and honey ........I guess time will tell ....but I'm willing to bet that whoever gets in we won't be any better off ....and both sides will be able use Brexit as the excuse 

Baz posted:

But I was listening  to a Labour spokesman today and they are already backtracking ....every question about the manifesto seemed to met with ..."it's simply a proposal"..."there will have to be a review" ........so do you really think it will be much different Sprout ? 

 

I don't know who you were listening to, JC and JM aren't backtracking on anything, they are totally committed to starting these policies if they get into power. I reckon for the poorest in society and for the sake of the NHS alone it's well worth the risk. But, at least the LP are putting people forward to discuss policies, May's campaign is being run by a Trump advisor and is totally silent on figures, cost and in will only answer vetted questions  ....and to be honest Baz, she seems to have completely lost the plot 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Baz posted:

But I was listening  to a Labour spokesman today and they are already backtracking ....every question about the manifesto seemed to met with ..."it's simply a proposal"..."there will have to be a review" ........so do you really think it will be much different Sprout ? 

 

I don't know who you were listening to, JC and JM aren't backtracking on anything, they are totally committed to starting these policies if they get into power. I reckon for the poorest in society and for the sake of the NHS alone it's well worth the risk. But, at least the LP are putting people forward to discuss policies, May's campaign is being run by a Trump advisor and is totally silent on figures, cost and in will only answer vetted questions  ....and to be honest Baz, she seems to have completely lost the plot 

Well I suggest that , like with Trident , they need to get all their ducks in a row ....

Baz posted:
Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

 You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.

 Thanks Yogi....it's nice not to be totally alone 

 As a Tory voter living in Scotland, I can identify with that.

Although my wee Ruthie has been doing a sterling job for us recently

Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:
Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

 You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.

 Thanks Yogi....it's nice not to be totally alone 

 As a Tory voter living in Scotland, I can   identify with that.

Although my wee Ruthie has been doing a sterling job for us recently

yes , she's certainly shaking the Cranky up a bit , eh 

Baz posted:

 

As for the rest I guess it's which side of the fence a person is  on ......every fact etc. comes with our own personal bias /interpretation .....that's human nature and can't be avoided .....moreover the more passionate people are the more that turns out to be the case . Personally, despite fighting my corner on here ...... I am a total cynic when it comes to politics ......because my own individual history has taught me that no matter what party is in power I get screwed ....it just depends to what degree  

Sadly, that's my experience too.

Baz posted:

Well I suggest that , like with Trident , they need to get all their ducks in a row ....

 

trident will go ahead..not that I want it to, it's out dated and a waste of money in my opinion. I have no clue as to what was said today, but if it was the BBC I wouldn't have  The tories need some ducks to get in a row to be fair, we've had a sheet of paper with 60 things written down and nothing else. Hammond lost 20 billion the other day in his interview, Gove completely got mixed up with his figures and then Fallon also got his figures wrong. didn't see that splashed over the MSM 

 

 

Baz posted:
Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:
Yogi19 posted:
Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

 You'll be shocked to hear that I agree with you.

 Thanks Yogi....it's nice not to be totally alone 

 As a Tory voter living in Scotland, I can   identify with that.

Although my wee Ruthie has been doing a sterling job for us recently

yes , she's certainly shaking the Cranky up a bit , eh 

 She sure is

Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Baz posted:

Well I suggest that , like with Trident , they need to get all their ducks in a row ....

 

trident will go ahead..not that I want it to, it's out dated and a waste of money in my opinion. I have no clue as to what was said today, but if it was the BBC I wouldn't have  The tories need some ducks to get in a row to be fair, we've had a sheet of paper with 60 things written down and nothing else. Hammond lost 20 billion the other day in his interview, Gove completely got mixed up with his figures and then Fallon also got his figures wrong. didn't see that splashed over the MSM 

 

 

It was on the radio .....money programme I think ....so quite innocuous  But that's the point I was making up there ^^^^ they are all the same....they all lie /misspeaks/ mess up / etc etc.......I'm sorry but I just don't see Corbyn as any different ..I'm willing to put money on him not backtracking like mad when he gets in power ....although again, like all of them, he will blame the previous government for it . 

Baz posted:

It was on the radio .....money programme I think ....so quite innocuous  But that's the point I was making up there ^^^^ they are all the same....they all lie /misspeaks/ mess up / etc etc.......I'm sorry but I just don't see Corbyn as any different ..I'm willing to put money on him not backtracking like mad when he gets in power ....although again, like all of them, he will blame the previous government for it . 

 

I will bet you he won't, he's stuck by the same  principals all his life. I just can't see how people can let the sick and disabled take anymore and May's not ruled out more cuts to those people. I'm wondering if the MP was Woodcock and if it was he's the Barrow MP where they build Trident and anything he says is his own opinion and not party policy, he's actually in the wrong party. The BBC keep dragging him out to out down Corbyn, he's hated here too...I do know more about him that I can't put on a open forum 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:
Baz posted:

It was on the radio .....money programme I think ....so quite innocuous  But that's the point I was making up there ^^^^ they are all the same....they all lie /misspeaks/ mess up / etc etc.......I'm sorry but I just don't see Corbyn as any different ..I'm willing to put money on him not backtracking like mad when he gets in power ....although again, like all of them, he will blame the previous government for it . 

 

I will bet you he won't, he's stuck by the same  principals all his life. I just can't see how people can let the sick and disabled take anymore and May's not ruled out more cuts to those people. I'm wondering if the MP was Woodcock and if it was he's the Barrow MP where they build Trident and anything he says is his own opinion and not party policy, he's actually in the wrong party. The BBC keep dragging him out to out down Corbyn, he's hated here too...I do know more about him that I can't put on a open forum 

It wasn't him....it was some shadow treasury person  

Baz posted:

It wasn't him....it was some shadow treasury person  

well, I don't know what was said so can't comment or look it up Baz...trident will go ahead, but a think a majority think it's a waste of money..I suppose you have to make some compromises in life, although it's one I don't prefer. 

Dame_Ann_Average posted:

in simple terms...the dementia tax

 

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Having just watched the Andrew Marr show and seen this debated by both sides, I do find it quite worrying, especially as someone who has experienced dementia first hand.

 

I am assuming that this does not affect the super rich who do not use the NHS. For example The Queen. Her family would be left her entire wealth.

 

I was also totally unconvinced by the argument put over by the Tory rep when it comes to winter fuel allowance. How he thinks a post election consultation with the elderly will ever result in policy in their favour is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

Enthusiastic Contrafibularities posted:

Having just watched the Andrew Marr show and seen this debated by both sides, I do find it quite worrying, especially as someone who has experienced dementia first hand.

 

I am assuming that this does not affect the super rich who do not use the NHS. For example The Queen. Her family would be left her entire wealth.

 

I was also totally unconvinced by the argument put over by the Tory rep when it comes to winter fuel allowance. How he thinks a post election consultation with the elderly will ever result in policy in their favour is beyond me.

 

 

 

 

 

EC, the more I think about this the more appalled I've become for several reasons. 

 

People have been scrutinizing the Tory Manifesto (if you can call it that) and it seems  that they are tying NHS care in with Social care so the estate of pensioners will pay not just for their Care in the home but also charged for any time in hospital and treatment therein.

 

Apart from it being a tax on the ill, dying and elderly which in itself is disgusting it also leaves Alzheimer/Dementia/ Frail/ patients to the choices their children/relatives make and who is to say the best choices will be made. Greed can be an powerful thing and I can see some families not arranging care or not putting them into care homes where they would have 24 hour care, or struggling on themselves and not providing the proper care. Not all children love their parents!...it really is terrifying and whoever thought it up needs their head boiled 

I have a friend who has made the decision, with her brother, that their mother is capable of living on her own, with a 'friend' (paid carer, although the mother doesn't know it) popping in twice a day. The mother hasn't showered in months, the house is filthy ... the mother has full blown dementia.

 

At the moment , if they put her into a home they only get to keep £24,000, she is quite excited that it could go up to £100,000, and if the tories get in she may well consider putting her mother in a home.

 

So, she thinks she will be quids in ... me, I don't care what party is in ... how could you treat your loved ones like that? 

Baz posted:

As the only * people * on the forum I feel I must answer this

It was Labour and Blair that started privatising the NHS by the back door .....it was 10 years of a Labour government that helped bring the country to its knees , and issued in austerity .....and people who had  more than 23k ( including the equity in their house) have had to pay for their own care for decades . As someone who will probably face that sooner than most on here I have always known that , should it happen , my house would be forfeit .  As for scurvy , scabies etc. I make no comment as I have no figures , demographics etc. 

 

There are things in the Tory manifesto that I don't particularly like either , but at least it's realistic .....unlike the Labour manifesto that IMO  promises people the earth simply to get into power , most of which ( as with all manifesto since time and memorial ) will probably be reneged on once they get in government . And ignore the 1970s if you want ......but the indisputable  truth is that it was the hard left and the unions etc. that consigned Labour to the backwater for 20 years , so.......

 

 

 

youre right-it was Blair but it was Blair who introduced New Labour ie tory lite..its telling that thatcher once said that her greatest achievment was tony blair

this time corbyn isnt playing by tonys rules-he actually wants to make it fair for us all

and that'll do for me

 

as for his IRA connections, which dont exsist-tory councillor for croydon, maria gatland was an actual active member of the IRA way back..tories welcomed her with open arms

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